Auditors can NOT audit their own work audit finding

R

rwsanborn

#1
We just went through our recertification audit to AS9100. We are a small company. Being small, Auditor objectivity and impartiality is difficult to prove. To cover this we hire an outside contractor to perform our internal audits. I received a finding that I never considered and I am not convinced that it follows the intent of the standard. It does however follow the letter of the law. The finding is:

Not in all cases has the organization ensured that the selection of auditors ensure objectivity and impartiality of the audit process and that auditors do not audit their own work. The organization contracted with an outside consultant to conduct various audits of the processes, this consultant also audited the Internal Audit process; which resulted in her auditing her own work.

Using AS9101 as an example for question counts: The criteria used during this audit said of the 410 questions in AS9101, if an auditor asked 1 question other that the 8 questions listed under 8.2.2, the auditor has audited his own work.
 
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Mikishots

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#2
Re: Auditors can NOT audit their own work finding.

Was that contractor ever used at a previous time for input or creation of any of your processes?

The only time there would be a conflict like this is if that contractor had a hand in anything that he/she subsequently audited. By the way the finding is worded, that contractor created or worked on the internal audit process, then audited it at a later time.

If this is the case, the finding is valid.
 

insect warfare

QA=Question Authority
Trusted Information Resource
#3
Re: Auditors can NOT audit their own work finding.

Agreed....

Perhaps this could have been avoided by having someone qualified within the organization audit the internal audit process instead of the contractor. In these types of scenarios, resources may be strained to the point that outsourcing internal audits is always needed by the company, but by enabling oversight in this fashion a system of checks & balances is provided to remove any impartiality and subjectivity factors that may be discovered during these surveillance assessments.

Brian :rolleyes:
 
#4
Was it demonstrated through the various records etc that the contractor audited something they'd previously audited or not? Just sticking to a checklist and suggesting they asked certain questions seems bogus to me. I'd want evidence that they'd audited something (as part of the audit of IA) that was the subject of an audit previously carried out (does that make sense?)

Or did they audit the IAs done by someone else?
 
#5
Using AS9101 as an example for question counts: The criteria used during this audit said of the 410 questions in AS9101, if an auditor asked 1 question other that the 8 questions listed under 8.2.2, the auditor has audited his own work.
This sounds pretty bogus to me...
 
#6
Re: Auditors can NOT audit their own work finding.

Was that contractor ever used at a previous time for input or creation of any of your processes?

The only time there would be a conflict like this is if that contractor had a hand in anything that he/she subsequently audited. By the way the finding is worded, that contractor created or worked on the internal audit process, then audited it at a later time.

If this is the case, the finding is valid.
IMHO this isn't the case at all! Creating processes? Maybe creating documents, more like! The work is unlikely to be done by the consultant is it? It's more likely the regular personnel are doing the work, which is fine for the consultant to audit - especially if they make good notes, you can tell if they have been objective.
 
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#8
Re: Auditors can NOT audit their own work finding.

Was that contractor ever used at a previous time for input or creation of any of your processes?

The only time there would be a conflict like this is if that contractor had a hand in anything that he/she subsequently audited. By the way the finding is worded, that contractor created or worked on the internal audit process, then audited it at a later time.

If this is the case, the finding is valid.
What about (consulting) organizations which provide template documents and also assist clients with internal audits? Are you saying they can't audit? What about the client actually having to IMPLEMENT what's been documented? Are you saying the consultant can't audit that, too? If so, you'd better write to an awful lot of organizations who have been doing it that way and tell them they can't continue (and have a word in ANAB's ear too)
 

dsanabria

Quite Involved in Discussions
#9
We just went through our recertification audit to AS9100. We are a small company. Being small, Auditor objectivity and impartiality is difficult to prove. To cover this we hire an outside contractor to perform our internal audits. I received a finding that I never considered and I am not convinced that it follows the intent of the standard. It does however follow the letter of the law. The finding is:

Not in all cases has the organization ensured that the selection of auditors ensure objectivity and impartiality of the audit process and that auditors do not audit their own work. The organization contracted with an outside consultant to conduct various audits of the processes, this consultant also audited the Internal Audit process; which resulted in her auditing her own work.

Using AS9101 as an example for question counts: The criteria used during this audit said of the 410 questions in AS9101, if an auditor asked 1 question other that the 8 questions listed under 8.2.2, the auditor has audited his own work.
If the auditor modified AS9101 - then it is considered their own work and thus - the finding is legit.

If the auditor followed the AS9101 as written - then you can appeal it. Registrar are aware of this and most will accept the AS9101 as an industry standard and not auditor / consultant work.
 
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