Auditors - Some are Good and Some are Bad

Auditors good or bad

  • Auditors Good

    Votes: 1 11.1%
  • Auditors Bad

    Votes: 1 11.1%
  • Inbetween

    Votes: 7 77.8%

  • Total voters
    9

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Staff member
Admin
#31
Re: Auditors good or bad

and mostly disdain for customers' auditors.
The OP's disgust which originated this thread had to do with a customer (2nd party) auditor. Effective communication includes sound reading of the written word. Much easier than reading the unwritten one...:lol:

Communication and egos: the barriers to effective audits
 
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Randy

Super Moderator
#33
Thank you for the kind words Paul but I think I'll opt out unless I can "contribute" in this discussion. A couple of the other Mod's were slightly taken aback by my previous post and voiced that concern elsewhere.

The bad auditing part hit home because in the last 2 weeks I have audited poorly in my opinion. I cannot of course go into detail, but I am personally not happy with my work ...I could have and maybe I should have been a bit tougher but I played the "benefit of the doubt" game. I am tired of listening to half-baked, bull-&hit excuses, talkng with folks that know less about management system requirements and what it takes to meet them than my crippled cat and woorying more about fluff than substance.

I took this thread personally and I shouldn't have.
 
A

Aaron Lupo

#34
Re: Auditors good or bad

I agree - a lot of people have claimed 'certified auditor', when in fact, all they had was a certificate from attending a course...........not actually becoming an "IRCA/RAB/whatever certified auditor"
That is a problem where I work, "Hey I took the course and passed the exam, that makes me a Certified Lead Auditor." Do you have any practical experience, no, then sit back and let someone you trust mentor you. Auditing is easy, compromises are difficult. Is it really a crime they didn't dot the i, you need to you reason good judgment when auditing and you better be able to back your decisions up.
 

Coury Ferguson

Moderator here to help
Staff member
Super Moderator
#35
Let us look at the real issue here:

Auditors are Human, with individual personalities. Apparently, this particular auditor's personality and maybe their knowledge of the Buisness sector does not fit within your organization. However, you must understand this is your customer, therefore if the organization feels that this particular auditor does not meet the needs of the organization, then in my opinion, don't accept anymore buisness from them which is a business decision.

Excuse my spelling, I can't install the spell check.
 
Last edited:

BradM

Staff member
Admin
#36
...I am tired of listening to half-baked, bull-&hit excuses, talking with folks that know less about management system requirements and what it takes to meet them than my crippled cat and worrying more about fluff than substance.
You make some very valid points.

Ok, so let me throw out a wild idea. Would it ever be feasible for evaluation of services?

Could we come to a point where auditor/auditee provide evaluation? You do your thing, and turn in the report to management. Then, you ask them to evaluate you on auditing style, knowledge, etc.

Here's the tricky part-you get to evaluate them as an auditee. Yes, they are a customer; I know.

Do you get to pick and choose who you get to audit? Is it entirely possible that if you as an auditor, poorly rate a client bad enough, that your employer would care and not accept them?
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#37
You make some very valid points.

Ok, so let me throw out a wild idea. Would it ever be feasible for evaluation of services?

Could we come to a point where auditor/auditee provide evaluation? You do your thing, and turn in the report to management. Then, you ask them to evaluate you on auditing style, knowledge, etc.

Here's the tricky part-you get to evaluate them as an auditee. Yes, they are a customer; I know.

Do you get to pick and choose who you get to audit? Is it entirely possible that if you as an auditor, poorly rate a client bad enough, that your employer would care and not accept them?
One of the problems is that the people who are responsible for systems being audited are under a lot of pressure to make sure that things go smoothly, and there are no bumps. Nominally myopic executives sometimes have 20-20 hindsight, and will be quick to second-guess when something goes wrong. They often just don't want to hear about problem auditors, or problems caused by them. Thus when an unreasonable auditor does appear, the responsible person is just supposed to deal with it and will get no support from above. Therein lies the frustration, and the main reason we have discussions like this. Bad auditors aren't weeded out because executives too often take the "Customer is always right" tack and allow their employees to be bullied. Yet another instance of assigning responsibility but not authority. :(
 

BradM

Staff member
Admin
#38
One of the problems is that the people who are responsible for systems being audited are under a lot of pressure to make sure that things go smoothly, and there are no bumps. Nominally myopic executives sometimes have 20-20 hindsight, and will be quick to second-guess when something goes wrong. They often just don't want to hear about problem auditors, or problems caused by them. Thus when an unreasonable auditor does appear, the responsible person is just supposed to deal with it and will get no support from above. Therein lies the frustration, and the main reason we have discussions like this. Bad auditors aren't weeded out because executives too often take the "Customer is always right" tack and allow their employees to be bullied. Yet another instance of assigning responsibility but not authority. :(
Nice writeup Jim. Were you speaking from the perspective of the organization being audited, the organization which is performing the audit, or a little of both?
 

SteelMaiden

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
#39
My view on all of this is:
CB/registrar auditors are usually pretty good anymore (lots of improvements in the 12 years I've been an MR.

Customer auditors are very inconsistent. Some feel they need to pick apart a supplier just because, some because it is expected of them. I would (unfortunately) say the over 50% of auditors from the customer's facilities are just not very well trained in ISO 9001.

Auditors hired by customers to come in and assess us are somewhat inconsistent, but I'd have to say the percentage of bad ones is probably closer to 10%.
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#40
Nice writeup Jim. Were you speaking from the perspective of the organization being audited, the organization which is performing the audit, or a little of both?
I was referring specifically to auditees, but some of the same applies to customer organizations who send out the miscreants with a mandate to make suppliers toe the line, rather than expecting them to (now channeling Deming) help suppliers to do a better job.
 
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