Automotive Customer asking PPAP for catalogue parts

#1
Here my problem description.
My company produces both catalogue and customer specific design parts.
It happens that a catalogue one could fit the needs of the automotive customer application. Catalogue, since made in mass production for open market, are cheaper than an equivalent customer specific design.

But in this case price is down because manufacturing line are multiple and sourcing of material and components is defined in a flexible panel list.

The batch produced may vary x manufacturing line as well for supplier used.

When Customer is asking PPAP, all the cost benefit are lost.
Manufacturing line, supplier list, qcp are frozen and changes to original submissions need a communication and approval.
My request is about how formally reply to the customer when he selected a catalogue (good price and fit for function), but is willing to receive a full PPAP with all cost implication of a customer specific design. Every suggestion or experience of similar case is very welcome.
Thanks
Peter
 
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#3
You could try to change the level of PPAP required.
Otherwise, check contracts / quality agreements / feasibility studies etc. There could be openings there that can assist you to come to terms with your customer.

Another option is to see if your special characteristics are in order, no matter the differences from where your catalogue part originates, and exclude these differences from PPAP in agreement with the customer.
 
#4
Hi Jax, the suggestion is formally not ok. Level of submission don't change the PPAP activities and documents as from AIAG. Submission level is just what delivered.

Characteristics are ok.
 
Last edited:
#5
Hi Golf, the suggestion it is not feasible. To PPAP all combinations is almost impossible. We should produce the item in all factories, lines and with all supplier and sub suppliers combinations...
 

vincee

Involved In Discussions
#6
You can PPAP as a "Family Of Parts", as they will all be processed the same way.
Family can be material type, or design, i.e., pistons, struts...
Vince
 
#7
Hi Jax, the suggestion is formally not ok. Level of submission don't change the PPAP activities and documents as from AIAG. Submission level is just what delivered.

Characteristics are ok.
Hi Peter,

Re-reading your initial post, it also seems the customers picks a catalogue part for what otherwise would be a specific (PPAP'd) part. Do you have any definition in your company for the term "catalogue part"?
Do they know about the differences in lines, suppliers, etc.?

By the looks of it, with the information you provide, the customer should think twice about selecting this.
May I know what the catalogue part is?
 

Ninja

Looking for Reality
Trusted Information Resource
#8
Level of submission don't change the PPAP activities and documents as from AIAG. Submission level is just what delivered.
To PPAP all combinations is almost impossible. We should produce the item in all factories, lines and with all supplier and sub suppliers combinations...
This seems to be one of the (many) cases where working together productively with your customer can generate simple solutions.

Automotive customers have great freedom in what they require (well, they TAKE great freedom, anyway). You are comparing ideas to AIAG and to the letter PPAP...try comparing it to what your customer is willing to accept instead. You will likely find that there is a simple and quick solution proposed by a veteran SQE from the customer.

The discussion should include their engineering, SQE and engineering manager, as well as your QE and salesperson (whoever sets the price).
When you boil it all down, they want to buy OTS to save money...and they have to balance additional requirements vs. additional cost you charge vs. future risk.
Let your customer make that call, you may be pleasantly surprised.
And when they choose, get it in writing and move on.

HTH
 
#9
Hi Jaxe, catalogue parts are parts that are made according company rules and design. Thse are offered in the market trough a list (catalogue) that provides geometrical dimensions and features for items that will be available on shelf.

Parts are based on standard dimensions (E.G. screw, nuts) and usually sold to dealers that sell to everyone wants to buy.
 

Dave Cx

Involved In Discussions
#10
Peter
If your catalogue parts are supplied as is without PPAP as a norm, then if your customer wants PPAP (away from the norm) then charge them accordingly for that service.

I'm surprised your commercial function have overlooked this opportunity?
Dave
 
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