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Bad ISO/TS Auditors - Is it a translation problem or am I nuts?

J

Jan C

#1
So how many bad auditors are out there? The auditor we have must use a different standard and PPAP manual than I have! He thinks you do not have to notify the certification body if you are put on CS2 and he thinks you do not have to notify the customer if you are going to change suppliers.
I am at the remote location with the manufacturing plant in Mexico. I tell the powers that be in Mexico what is correct and they ask the auditor and he tells them something different. Is it a translation problem or am I nuts?
:mad:
 
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Howard Atkins

Forum Administrator
Staff member
Admin
#2
Re: Bad Iso/ts Auditors

So how many bad auditors are out there? The auditor we have must use a different standard and PPAP manual than I have! He thinks you do not have to notify the certification body if you are put on CS2 and he thinks you do not have to notify the customer if you are going to change suppliers.
I am at the remote location with the manufacturing plant in Mexico. I tell the powers that be in Mexico what is correct and they ask the auditor and he tells them something different. Is it a translation problem or am I nuts?
:mad:
It sounds as if the auditor is a consultant.
Do they have a hot line to him?
The 2 examples that you give are clearcut.
 

harry

Super Moderator
#3
Re: Bad Iso/ts Auditors

So how many bad auditors are out there? The auditor we have must use a different standard and PPAP manual than I have! He thinks you do not have to notify the certification body if you are put on CS2 and he thinks you do not have to notify the customer if you are going to change suppliers.
I am at the remote location with the manufacturing plant in Mexico. I tell the powers that be in Mexico what is correct and they ask the auditor and he tells them something different. Is it a translation problem or am I nuts?
:mad:
Write to the CB and ask them to confirm in black and white. If they come back with the same answer, I think that's where the fun begins!
 

Wes Bucey

Prophet of Profit
#4
Re: Bad Iso/ts Auditors

It sounds as if the auditor is a consultant.
Do they have a hot line to him?
The 2 examples that you give are clearcut.
VERY perspicacious, Howard! I can't imagine any registrar condoning such an error, but I can imagine a consultant hired to find cost-cutting "loopholes" making such suggestions, especially when management apparently feels TS registration is an arbitrary burden and not value-added in any way.

These two items cited definitely point to an organization which is NOT "customer-centric."
 

BradM

Staff member
Admin
#5
...I am at the remote location with the manufacturing plant in Mexico. I tell the powers that be in Mexico what is correct and they ask the auditor and he tells them something different. Is it a translation problem or am I nuts?
It may be... I would never rule out poor communication. Who is the MR, and can they not translate properly? Before I got too upset, relax and calm down:). Then make every effort to assure that things are being properly and effectively communicated.:yes:

All auditors are human, and I believe most humans are good. As we have discussed in other threads here, many issues evolve from poor communication.
 
J

Jan C

#6
The auditor has a consulting firm and is a contract auditor for the certification body. That should tell me something! Problem is, now the plant in Mexico treats me like I just fell off of a potatoe truck and have NO idea what the standard requires. If I go to the CB, I think my employer (corp office) would have a stroke. Just about done with this whole job. I have taken TS to heart and always put the customer first but trying to meet the standard has become something I cannot control. Maybe it is just time to find another job. Thanks for letting me vent!
In 2009 we will change auditors and if I still have this job, I will call the CB and voice my opinion, might not help but I will feel better.:nopity:
 

Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#7
The auditor has a consulting firm and is a contract auditor for the certification body. That should tell me something! Problem is, now the plant in Mexico treats me like I just fell off of a potatoe truck and have NO idea what the standard requires. If I go to the CB, I think my employer (corp office) would have a stroke. Just about done with this whole job. I have taken TS to heart and always put the customer first but trying to meet the standard has become something I cannot control. Maybe it is just time to find another job. Thanks for letting me vent!
In 2009 we will change auditors and if I still have this job, I will call the CB and voice my opinion, might not help but I will feel better.:nopity:
Jan,

If I were you, I would contact the IAOB and explain this very unfortunate situation to them. There should be no reason to put up with this crap. :nope:

IAOB is the International Automotive Oversight Bureau.

International Automotive Oversight Bureau (IAOB) - Americas Division
26200 Lahser Road, Suite 320 - Southfield, MI 48034-7156
Phone: (248) 799-3939 - Fax: (248) 799-3943.


Good luck my friend!


Stijloor.
 

Helmut Jilling

Auditor / Consultant
#8
It may be... I would never rule out poor communication. Who is the MR, and can they not translate properly? Before I got too upset, relax and calm down:). Then make every effort to assure that things are being properly and effectively communicated.:yes:

All auditors are human, and I believe most humans are good. As we have discussed in other threads here, many issues evolve from poor communication.

Perhaps it would be useful to have a friendly non-confrontational converstaion or emails with the auditor directly. Discuss and calibrate viewpoints on some of the points of interpretation.

I am also a consultant/trainer and auditor, with years of experience in both. Many auditors are, and it usually makes us better, not worse. It gives us good insight. If someone is trying to angle for business during an audit, that is a different issue.
 

Helmut Jilling

Auditor / Consultant
#9
So how many bad auditors are out there? The auditor we have must use a different standard and PPAP manual than I have! He thinks you do not have to notify the certification body if you are put on CS2 and he thinks you do not have to notify the customer if you are going to change suppliers.
I am at the remote location with the manufacturing plant in Mexico. I tell the powers that be in Mexico what is correct and they ask the auditor and he tells them something different. Is it a translation problem or am I nuts?
:mad:

Well, clearly, if that is what he "thinks," then he "thinks" wrong. It has nothing to do with consulting. It has to do with not knowing the requirements, or ignoring them. Also note, if TS, independent translation is required. If ISO, it is a tad less definitive, but still a factor.
 
Q

QAMMAN

#10
So how many bad auditors are out there? The auditor we have must use a different standard and PPAP manual than I have! He thinks you do not have to notify the certification body if you are put on CS2 and he thinks you do not have to notify the customer if you are going to change suppliers.
I am at the remote location with the manufacturing plant in Mexico. I tell the powers that be in Mexico what is correct and they ask the auditor and he tells them something different. Is it a translation problem or am I nuts?
:mad:
I am a little surprised that no one asked Jan if they are tier 1 to one of the automotive companies. If they "are" tier 1 it is my understanding they would have to notify the certifying body. If they are not tier 1 it is my understanding that they need to meet the customers requirements.

We were placed on CS2 containment by our customer who was tier 1 to G.M. At my next surveliance audit I showed the auditor all of my CS2 documentation and they looked into it and concluded that since we were not tier 1 we had not needed to notify them upon being placed on CS2 containment.

Funny thing was 5 weeks after contracting Product Action and having them do a 100% visual inspection of my parts, a part was found at my customer that was missing 2 weld nuts. When I went to the customer and showed them that Product Action had been the ones who had performed the inspection they didn't care. They told me I had to re-inspect 100% of the product they had at their facility.

Worked out pretty nice for me because I got paid a bunch of overtime to inspect parts that had been inspected the previous week by my own people. This was because I had fired product action the week before for sending me a guy who was more interested in the girl who worked in shipping then he was in the parts he was inspecting.

I back charged product action for the time I spent re-inspecting parts and in the end all was well. My customer downgraded me to CS1 and we have been doing 100% visual inspection ever since. Now I get to come in on Saturday (at time and a half) and do weld destruct testing. The irony of it all is that the only one who made out was me.

Moral of the story is that it is best to calm down and take a cool approach to your situation. If you are not tier 1 your auditor/consultant may just be right.

As far as quiting a job over this: don't cut off your nose to spite your face.
 
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