Basic Gage R&R Sample Questions

bobdoering

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#11
Re: Gage R&R Sample Question

I am not disagreeing that you should understand the difference, but never forget it is called MEASUREMENT systems analysis, not gauge analysis.
Gage R&R is one facet of measurement system analysis. Clearly, it is difficult enough to have a tool that already includes environment, gage, operator and part. To add measurement error to this tool will mask the answer you are trying to get from the tool: Is this gage an adequate gage for the measurement? Very few gages are adequate when used incorrectly - so I am not inclined to throw that into this particular tool's usage.

You should purposely separate each of the components of the measurement system to fully understand them. The part that I strongly disagree about is limiting the effect of the within part variation in the situation where it is not ALSO controlled during normal measurement. If this is not made clear, the person will control variation for the purpose of the study, get an acceptable %SV, then promptly allow the operators to measure however they will. This is only kidding yourself.
I understand your point. If you chose to do a gage R&R using the tool correctly and a gage r&r using the tool incorrectly to prove the point, it would be an interesting academic exercise. Unfortunately, most of the people that need that training are the quality professionals that do not recognize such issues as measuring one diameter out of an infinite number of diameters is not an adequate way to describe a circular feature - not the operators they are training.

But, to burden gage decisions on incorrect measurement is certainly not a fair assessment of the gage's capability. And, if the gage fails gage R&R because of that, I would be suspicious that one would recognize that the measurement error - not the other facets of the gage error - is what would need to be corrected. A more accurate gage would never resolve that problem!
 
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bobdoering

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#12
Re: Gage R&R Sample Question

I disagree with that the parts have to be the actual parts that are being measured with the gage. You might want to have various different parts, with different sizes and dimensions to evaluate the range of the part and any Part x Operator interaction. Maybe I am naive, but that is how I see it :)
Generally speaking, gage R&R answers the question: Is the gage adequate for measuring a specific characteristic. Your approach may answer: Is the gage adequate for measuring any similar characteristic? If it is, then you may be lucky. If it is not, it may still be adequate for the specific characteristic originally questioned...but you will not know.

It goes back to the rule of life with gages: All gages are bad...but a gage may be good enough. GR&R is how you tell if it is.
 

Statistical Steven

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#13
Re: Gage R&R Sample Question

Generally speaking, gage R&R answers the question: Is the gage adequate for measuring a specific characteristic. Your approach may answer: Is the gage adequate for measuring any similar characteristic? If it is, then you may be lucky. If it is not, it may still be adequate for the specific characteristic originally questioned...but you will not know.

It goes back to the rule of life with gages: All gages are bad...but a gage may be good enough. GR&R is how you tell if it is.
Bob, if I understand your approach, if you used a micrometer to measure nails, you would perform separate GR&R studies for each part number. I would propose that if we can show that the gage is capable for measuring a range of nails sizes, we can reduce the total size of the GR&R study. I guess I am wrong in that approach.
 

bobdoering

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#14
Re: Gage R&R Sample Question

Bob, if I understand your approach, if you used a micrometer to measure nails, you would perform separate GR&R studies for each part number. I would propose that if we can show that the gage is capable for measuring a range of nails sizes, we can reduce the total size of the GR&R study. I guess I am wrong in that approach.
I did not say your approach was wrong, I just cited the risk of that approach. Of course, the correct answer is "it depends." It is possible to do gage R&R for similar dimensions (families), but they must be similar - e.g.: in process (for the PV to be valid).
 
V

virpatel

#15
Hello everyone,

Can anyone explain me what is d value in gage r and r. how to calculate d value?

Thank You
 

Miner

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#16
Can anyone explain me what is d value in gage r and r. how to calculate d value?
Can you clarify your question?

The only d values that come to mind is the D4 value used in the Range method, or the ndc (number of discrete categories).
 
V

virpatel

#17
i am talking about d4 value which is used to calculate EV in gage R and R. Can you explain what is d4 value and how to calculate it? Moreover i have also seen d2 value instead d4 in some gage r and r examples. what is difference between these two?

Appreciate

Thank You,
 
S

svara

#20
Can anyone explain why the %GRR and NDC do not come out good when using a gage that measures extremely accurate? I'm measuring a 9mm width and I only vary by .03mm using 3 inspectors and 10 parts.
 
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