Boss doesn't want Nonconformances called Nonconformances in Internal Audit Reports

[Jim Wynne]

Re: Boss doesn't want Nonconformances called Nonconformances in Internal Audit Report

How about just observations?

As mention above, the name is not important by actions are...

But then aren't your right back to the same thing as one would want to know what sort of observation (conforming, nonconforming, needs improvement) you were making?

SteelMaiden,

It does not matter, they all need to be addressed!

If you are comfortable with it and you can explain the process to an auditor, it will work.

More important still is the content of the audit findings...

Following on Andy's "observation" it's the content of the report that counts. I think it's good for auditors to report everything they see and hear that they think might be noteworthy. Then decisions can be made as to how to approach each "thing." Some might require CA, some may develop into PA, and others might hold no special significance.

 

[Al Rosen]

Re: Boss doesn't want Nonconformances called Nonconformances in Internal Audit Report

If you follow your boss's request then your processes will be in compliance to your company's QMSS (Quality Management Smoke Screen).

 

[piningg]

Re: Boss doesn't want Nonconformances called Nonconformances in Internal Audit Report

What does he want to call them?

When I reckon there's NC, he wants me to put AOC only..

 

[AndyN]

Re: Boss doesn't want Nonconformances called Nonconformances in Internal Audit Report

When I reckon there's NC, he wants me to put AOC only..

Perhaps, as I posted earlier, he's got an issue with what the content of the report/nc is. Can you give us some (cleaned) examples? The clue may be in that although 'valid' it may not be anything he recognizes as valuable... If you'd share a couple, we can see where his issue is.

 

[piningg]

Re: Boss doesn't want Nonconformances called Nonconformances in Internal Audit Report

Thanks Guys for all the feedbacks and funny comments.. thats make my coffee break before working delightful..
He's very bookish and close in what he sees in the book.
He's afraid that once we put an NC there, External auditor will open that up and scrutinize him on the next ext.audit..

 

[Sidney Vianna]

Re: Boss doesn't want Nonconformances called Nonconformances in Internal Audit Report

He's afraid that once we put an NC there, External auditor will open that up and scrutinize him on the next ext.audit..

He should be more concerned if the external auditor does not see your internal auditors finding ANY non-conformances, which would mean that they are either incompetent or the internal audit process is not effective.

It is amazing how people (the boss in this case) do stupid things, as an attempt to second-guess what an external auditor would do.

 

[Groo3]

Re: Boss doesn't want Nonconformances called Nonconformances in Internal Audit Report

Been down that road before with a former boss years ago... We asked our Plant Manager to make NCM's a priority for all his direct reports and used to copy him on the automatic reminders and escalations until he asked us to "make it stop".

Thanks, this made me want to laugh like in that movie = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yil2jWQ5Oqg&NR=1


Call them what you will, just make sure they are taken seriously, investigated and that action is taken as appropriate to resolve the issue.

 

[arios]

Re: Boss doesn't want Nonconformances called Nonconformances in Internal Audit Report

In some companies it may be beneficial to call them something that fits with their business model and something that reflects an improvement in their processes rather than just a slap on the wrist.

My experience is that management repsond better to something that is in their own teminology and that they can see the benefit of. In this day and and since we have moved away from tick box auditing, just telling them something doesn't conform does not always send the right message and then NCs are addressed with the minimum of effort just to get the tick.

By explaining the "finding" and highlighting to them that something would improve the process and have benefits for the business, I get better buy in and far better thought out corrective actions. Also if they put a CA in place just for the sake of the tick, I find that it tends to re-occur but if a well thought out corrective action is put in place the benefits show and it is less likely to re-occur

Chrissie

You are right Chrissie, (you too Jim)

I should had been clearer on what I said. What I understood is that the "boss" was not giving the NC's an adequate level of importance by trying to call and handle the NC's with a different criteria, hence rendering importance to the severity of the findings.

The name is not so important as it is the actions taken to address them, and that these actions commensurate to the nature of the problems.

 

[AndyN]

Re: Boss doesn't want Nonconformances called Nonconformances in Internal Audit Report

Thanks Guys for all the feedbacks and funny comments.. thats make my coffee break before working delightful..
He's very bookish and close in what he sees in the book.
He's afraid that once we put an NC there, External auditor will open that up and scrutinize him on the next ext.audit..

So, at your next CB auditor visit - take the auditor to one side, tell them that you need them to explain to the boss that internal audit findings are 'good' (even if they are called NCs) and give the boss's ego a rub. Mind you, make certain the CB auditor has the relevant abilities to do a 'sales job' on this aspect of why, as Sidney says, it's good to have internal audit findings, and not good to have none...

 

[piningg]

Re: Boss doesn't want Nonconformances called Nonconformances in Internal Audit Report

Perhaps, as I posted earlier, he's got an issue with what the content of the report/nc is. Can you give us some (cleaned) examples? The clue may be in that although 'valid' it may not be anything he recognizes as valuable... If you'd share a couple, we can see where his issue is.

We got a thermometer that has to maintained and verified monthly and externally calibrated every year.. When I audited the person involved, I want to put NC because firstly it was not monthly checked and secondly it is due for external calibration..
That instrument is very important as it does measures the temp of all our ovens, machines in producing the product.
On the Internal audit report, I put there NC but when I gave the form to him, he strongly suggested to change it to AOC (area of concern) .. because he reckons once I put there NC, I am suggesting the company has to be shut down..

So there shall not be any NC on our Internal audits..