Boss doesn't want Nonconformances called Nonconformances in Internal Audit Reports

[Sidney Vianna]

Re: Boss doesn't want Nonconformances called Nonconformances in Internal Audit Report

So there shall not be any NC on our Internal audits..

So, your boss should extend that stupid line of thought to products and pass a directive that there will be no non-conforming products in the company. Only "products awaiting perfection", other than the conforming perfect products.

 

[AndyN]

Re: Boss doesn't want Nonconformances called Nonconformances in Internal Audit Report

My boss ( QM ) doesnt want us ( Internal auditors) to put Non conformance in our internal audits eventhough they are really non conformance.. he reckons a NC is " Company Closure"..

Since your boss is the QM, what do other members of the management team think? Sometimes the QM isn't the most appropriate person to present the results to - why don't you bring it to the Production Mgr? It's his objectives that are at risk - especially for the situation you described. The, if they see the benefit, you can lobby them and they can make the decision for the QM...

 

[piningg]

Re: Boss doesn't want Nonconformances called Nonconformances in Internal Audit Report

Since your boss is the QM, what do other members of the management team think? Sometimes the QM isn't the most appropriate person to present the results to - why don't you bring it to the Production Mgr? It's his objectives that are at risk - especially for the situation you described. The, if they see the benefit, you can lobby them and they can make the decision for the QM...

to be honest I dont know if the Mgt team cares?
Look, the QM does conduct a Quality management review and one of our Quality Objective is not even measurable..
Why the management team have accepted that?

The production mgr I reckon also doesnt care at all as well. On the next internal audit I insistedly put my self to audit the prodn line for him to see the system flaws.. he's also like a plant that repels water.. Doesnt want to be corrected. His way or the hiway.. To be honest.. Im fedup of the company and currently looking for a greener pasteur.. God willing..

 

[Jen Kirley]

Re: Boss doesn't want Nonconformances called Nonconformances in Internal Audit Report

Great thread.

I am thinking I am seeing fear in the workplace, as Deming warned us about. Is there a corporate office that calls these things something different?

Maybe boss-man should be introduced to the cost-of-poor-quality curve, in which we show that undiscovered problems cost more than the shame of audit nonconformances/discrepancies/whatz-its/etc. (my workplace uses Discrepancies)

It could also be an exhibit of non-confrontational tendencies, wherein a severe-sounding term triggers unhelpful emotions. As others have said so well already, Whatever. What matters is the audit process is effective and management is responsive. Audit results are supposed to be presented at management Review, but there may be no official response if the findings aren't really serious. At this point it matters most that the process owners respond to what's found, and that the organization grows from the process. I hope to some day learn that's the case.

 

[AndyN]

Re: Boss doesn't want Nonconformances called Nonconformances in Internal Audit Report

to be honest I dont know if the Mgt team cares?
Look, the QM does conduct a Quality management review and one of our Quality Objective is not even measurable..
Why the management team have accepted that?

The production mgr I reckon also doesn't care at all as well. On the next internal audit I insistently put my self to audit the prodn line for him to see the system flaws.. he's also like a plant that repels water.. Doesn't want to be corrected. His way or the hiway.. To be honest.. Im fedup of the company and currently looking for a greener pasture.. God willing..

Good luck, finding another job may be the least of the battles you have to fight, given the circumstances!

 

[Ka Pilo]

Re: Boss doesn't want Nonconformances called Nonconformances in Internal Audit Report

I think he wants to call them distractions.

or perhaps QM wants to call it tsunami.

 

[howste]

Re: Boss doesn't want Nonconformances called Nonconformances in Internal Audit Report

We got a thermometer that has to maintained and verified monthly and externally calibrated every year.. When I audited the person involved, I want to put NC because firstly it was not monthly checked and secondly it is due for external calibration..
That instrument is very important as it does measures the temp of all our ovens, machines in producing the product.
On the Internal audit report, I put there NC but when I gave the form to him, he strongly suggested to change it to AOC (area of concern) .. because he reckons once I put there NC, I am suggesting the company has to be shut down..

So there shall not be any NC on our Internal audits..

Since your boss is your boss, you should do what he says: call it an AOC - Absolutely Out of Control.

 

[somashekar]

Re: Boss doesn't want Nonconformances called Nonconformances in Internal Audit Report

We got a thermometer that has to maintained and verified monthly and externally calibrated every year.. When I audited the person involved, I want to put NC because firstly it was not monthly checked and secondly it is due for external calibration..
That instrument is very important as it does measures the temp of all our ovens, machines in producing the product.
On the Internal audit report, I put there NC but when I gave the form to him, he strongly suggested to change it to AOC (area of concern) .. because he reckons once I put there NC, I am suggesting the company has to be shut down..

So there shall not be any NC on our Internal audits..

What a pity really if what you say is what is. Nothing more hurting than cheating ourself, and we see a very false sense of satisfaction.
Call a spade a spade. let them know that having a NONCONFROMANCE is not a sin but delibarately hiding it is.
Lets get rid of the fear of NC first. Call them as a positive stroke word if you feel. Call them as a CHALLENGE
For example do you have 12 challenges as an outcome of your internal audit.
Waoo.... first feel happy. 12 is a small number, we used to have 30's and 40's.
Now see them at calm and with focus. Make a priority on which you have to address first and how. Involve the concerned responsible personnel. Make them to take their challenge and come up with thoughts and ideas how they can address them. Let your boss know that these challenges are a part of the task we are supposed to do. Ask your Boss to calm down and get rid of the fear of the word NONCONFORMANCE
It is just a word like CONFORMANCE and soon you will find how easily you will remove the NON and get the the CONFORMANCE in place. Your external auditors will be more than pleased when you are aware and working on the challenges that your system has identified in your system.
Get my words...
Internal audit is a system that tests and challenges your system the way it is and has a purpose to improve your system.
Please do not kill this system by your own illusions about external audits. External audits tests this internal audit system within your quality management system. The more they find it good the more better they picture your QMS at large.
Good luck to you in this transformation ~~~

 

[Quality-Geek]

Re: Boss doesn't want Nonconformances called Nonconformances in Internal Audit Report

Thanks Guys for all the feedbacks and funny comments.. thats make my coffee break before working delightful..
He's very bookish and close in what he sees in the book.
He's afraid that once we put an NC there, External auditor will open that up and scrutinize him on the next ext.audit..

My experience is the exact opposite...we show the auditor the findings and CAPA's for the findings, and he essentially says "Good job, no problems." IMO, Internal auditors shoud be strongly encouraged to dig - and dig deep - so problems are found and corrected as part of regular business instead of during surviellance/recert audits.

 

[piningg]

Re: Boss doesn't want Nonconformances called Nonconformances in Internal Audit Report

Since your boss is your boss, you should do what he says: call it an AOC - Absolutely Out of Control.

Thans a nice one..