Bosses from he!! [Heck...] - Identify and Avoid

[Jen Kirley]

I'm not sure about the dichotomy here, because its plain that sociopaths can have narcissistic tendencies. In fact, one of the hallmarks of narcissism is extreme difficulty in admitting to being wrong. It seems to me that this manifests itself in sociopaths in a slightly different way: sociopaths appear to derive pleasure from inflicting pain. I suspect that it's a lot more complicated than that, and that it's very possible that sociopathic behavior has a somatic basis--i.e., it's effectively uncontrollable--and the appearance of derivation of pleasure might be a defense mechanism--it's the only way that "sense" can be made of otherwise inexplicable behavior. Put more simply, what I'm suggesting is that sociopaths might be well aware that their actions are wrong, but being unable to alter the behavior, the narcissistic component kicks in and helps to provide justification. Or maybe not.

From my (too frequent) brushes with narccisists I suspect this is true. We do not understand the human brain well enough to discern intent from a physiological/psychological condition we might manage to cure in some distant, welcome time.

 

[little__cee]

Passive/aggressive

I've never really thought about the employer/employee relationship in the terms that have been spelled out in this thread. I have noticed at a prior job that The Boss tended to promote people who were EXTREMELY passive. He was the type of boss who would ask a question and really NOT want an answer, you know? His right hand person was married to an alcoholic and used to saying "yes, uh-huh, you're right" a lot and the two of them got along perfectly, if a bit dysfunctionally, in my opinion.

This thread has opened my eyes a bit - I always thought of things at the workplace in terms of passive and aggressive but everything posted here so far makes good sense, too.

Time to dig out my Intro to Psychology book - this could get interesting in a hurry!

 

[jmp4429]

From my (too frequent) brushes with narccisists I suspect this is true. We do not understand the human brain well enough to discern intent from a physiological/psychological condition we might manage to cure in some distant, welcome time.

The only *real* narcissist I've ever known was a college roommate (lived with her for three long years) and I always suspected she was a psychopath. One small example of her psychopath behavior was her obsession with breaking guys' hearts. And I mean, the more emotionally devastated they were, the happier she was. She kept notches on her lipstick case, and by the time I moved out there were about 35 of them.

I've always suspected deep-rooted insecurity drove the narcissist/psychopath. They have no remorse, even enjoy hurting others because it makes them feel more powerful, more wanted, etc... Then they can run around boasting on how fantastic they are, and they have "evidence."

 

[Claes Gefvenberg]

I've always suspected deep-rooted insecurity drove the narcissist/psychopath. They have no remorse, even enjoy hurting others because it makes them feel more powerful, more wanted, etc... Then they can run around boasting on how fantastic they are, and they have "evidence."

Yes.... and if anyone turns the tables on them and they end up holding the dirty end of the stick themselves, they are utterly destroyed by the experience. In short, they are good at dishing it out but incapable of taking it themselves. Do that, and you can rest assured that you have made an enemy for life.

/Claes

 

[Pataha]

"One reason outside executives get brought into troubled companies is that they lack the emotional stake in either the enterprise or its people. It's easier for them to act callously and remorselessly, which is exactly what their backers want."

I am not sure that in this case that either callous or remoreless is a bad thing. When I am brouhgt into a company to help it get out of the particular hole that its in. I am usually following behind a weak leader who did not give either direction or vision. This creates a work place where some of the employees have basically become ROADS (Retired On Active Duty). These people are the danger to the company, medical staff, and patients. I eliminate them AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE.
I do not subscribe to the idea "to wipe clean" what happened before I arrived. A poor worker is a poor worker. If someone has started the necessary paperwork to legally terminate them, I will not discount this paperwork, but build on it.
I am not a person that people instantly like and if you are capable at your job, I do not care what your personality is.
I have some very nice people working for me and I have people who are amazed that they can talk to me the way they do and still have a job.
One has to keep in mind in dealing with people in the United States that most the people that came here were mediocre. My forefathers were brought to the U.S. around 1757 to help the Brits with their World War with the French. When it was over the Brits just left them here. We are given the tools to help people achieve beyond they own imagination. The ISO and QSR just gives us the framework to set up the boundaries for this achievement.

That being written, I do have an older brother that also comes into troubled companies. On the first day he sets up a meeting for all manager level and above. When its time for the meeting, he locks the conference door with someone from HR outside to have the stragglers wait. At the end of the meeting, he opens the door and fires the stragglers right in front of everyone. He believes that on the first day, you do have to fire at least one person as publically as possible. By the way, every one likes him!!

 

[Jim Wynne]

That being written, I do have an older brother that also comes into troubled companies. On the first day he sets up a meeting for all manager level and above. When its time for the meeting, he locks the conference door with someone from HR outside to have the stragglers wait. At the end of the meeting, he opens the door and fires the stragglers right in front of everyone. He believes that on the first day, you do have to fire at least one person as publically as possible. By the way, every one likes him!!

Sounds like just the kind of guy this thread is all about.

 

[Jen Kirley]

I do have an older brother that also comes into troubled companies. On the first day he sets up a meeting for all manager level and above. When its time for the meeting, he locks the conference door with someone from HR outside to have the stragglers wait. At the end of the meeting, he opens the door and fires the stragglers right in front of everyone. He believes that on the first day, you do have to fire at least one person as publically as possible. By the way, every one likes him!!

I doubt anyone who cared to keep working would dare to show anything but like. Oh yeah. I'd be grinning like a fool, though I'd be scared to death in this economy, that someone could get me fired by holding me up when it's time for a meeting. What a great weapon that could be.

 

[Wes Bucey]

I wonder if a Demingite really needs to comment other than to say,

"Thanks! I needed another example."

 

[Pataha]

In my brother's defense. He only does that for the first meeting. Plus, you must remember that he goes into situations where a company that was doing well, has a decent product, and an absentee owner. This approach does tear down the politics very quickly. They all point the pettiness and hatred at him. He does get this companies back on track. It is not my approach, but then again, I am never on time when I have to meet with him.

Again, I am pointing out the in certain circumstances being considered callously and remorselessly is not a bad thing.

Both my brother and I do try to find your ineffecture boss and eliminate them.

For my approach, I generally end up with people who are not employable any where else for various reasons, who are very good at what they do. I am willing to work with these people than a passive/aggressive any day.

However, I am only addressing the situation where a company is in trouble and needs to be placed in a positive direction.

That is why I watch FDA Warning letters http://www.fda.gov/foi/warning.htm if the company is in a region I like, I send a letter and my resume.

Not everyone is cut out to handle situations that need the quick radical change that is tranformed into a lasting positive direction.