Business Process Flow - Comments wanted

[Ka Pilo]

Please find attached the business process flow. I would like to get your comments, inputs.

 

[Ajit Basrur]

Please find attached the business process flow. I would like to get your comments, inputs.

Some of my comments -

1. Consider swim lanes vertically to represent the involvement of various department who has a role in the processes being mapped.
   
2. Draw all processes along the swim lanes
   
3. Number each process
   
4. Instead of Quality Objectives, I would prefer organization wide Objectives.

I did not see Quality Testing as a process too ?

 

[Peter Fraser]

Some of my comments -

1. Consider swim lanes vertically to represent the involvement of various department who has a role in the processes being mapped.
2. Draw all processes along the swim lanes
3. Number each process
4. Instead of Quality Objectives, I would prefer organization wide Objectives.

I did not see Quality Testing as a process too ?

My first question would be - who is this for? If it is for 9001 (to show "the sequence and interaction of processes") then most CBs will accept more or less anything in this format, and yours is better than most! But it is nigh impossible to show anything meaningful in 2 dimensions that will tell a reader any more than they knew already...

If on the other hand you want to explain to a new member of staff how you operate...

i) Do you have to buy everything you supply? (Ordering only goes to Procurement)?
ii) Do you actually "make" things? (You go from Production Planning straight to Preparation and Sorting)
iii) Does the Customer actually generate Sales Reports? (I would expect Invoicing to be triggered internally, and at an earlier stage)
iv) as with all these pictures, it is difficult to show anything meaningful with just a single "box" called Support Groups - after all, they are not processes but a mixture of departments and resources, which interact with each other as well as with the Core Processes you list.

Perhaps the most important question is "do your staff find this useful?". If not (and an external assessor accepts it), then I do wonder why ISO9001 asks you to produce it...

PS I am not sure that I agree with Ajit...
1&2 I like swimlanes, but it is difficult to use them at the "system map" level, since a process will typically involve more than one department. One benefit of "the process approach" is to avoid the "silo" (departmental) approach.
3 numbering the processes can imply a sequence / hierarchy, and I am not sure that this will help people to appreciate that the processes are all happening and interacting concurrently.
4 I like the way that your quality objectives "flow" from your higher level corporate objectives (Ajit seems to be saying the same thing in one way, but then the opposite!) You are showing what many of these pictures don't, ie that managing "quality" is part of "managing the business"

 

[Ka Pilo]

My first question would be - who is this for? If it is for 9001 (to show "the sequence and interaction of processes") then most CBs will accept more or less anything in this format, and yours is better than most! But it is nigh impossible to show anything meaningful in 2 dimensions that will tell a reader any more than they knew already...

It is for ISO 22000.

If on the other hand you want to explain to a new member of staff how you operate...

i) Do you have to buy everything you supply? (Ordering only goes to Procurement)?

Yes, we do.

ii) Do you actually "make" things? (You go from Production Planning straight to Preparation and Sorting)

From purchasing of raw materials to receiving to preparation and production (sorting, packing, etc) to dispatching to deliveries.

iii) Does the Customer actually generate Sales Reports? (I would expect Invoicing to be triggered internally, and at an earlier stage)

Yes

iv) as with all these pictures, it is difficult to show anything meaningful with just a single "box" called Support Groups - after all, they are not processes but a mixture of departments and resources, which interact with each other as well as with the Core Processes you list.

Can you show me a sample how a business process map looks like?

Perhaps the most important question is "do your staff find this useful?". If not (and an external assessor accepts it), then I do wonder why ISO9001 asks you to produce it...

This is a good question to ponder.

 

[Peter Fraser]

Thanks - now that you mention 22000, maybe I could have worked out what the "products" were from the processes you listed!

Can you show me a sample how a business process map looks like?

As I said, there are many examples (of what I call a "system map" rather than a "process map", ie a "map of a process" - as discussed at length elsewhere in the Cove) which have been accepted for 9001 assessment but which do not add much value. Yours is better than most!

 

[tsmith7858]

Please find attached the business process flow. I would like to get your comments, inputs.

As was questioned by Peter, who is this for? ISO 22000 does not require a business process flow. I agree that it would be applauded by most ISO 9001 auditors but ISO 22000 auditors would likely not care.

The flows that they do want to see for ISO 22000 are process maps that can be used to indicate potential hazards in your production. These are a critcal part of preliminary HACCP creation.

 

[selena15]

Hi i'm hesiting to send this comment
why do you have in the first column " suppliers" ? are they your customer that you have to satisfy the request ?? normaly, you received an order form customer and try in the end to answer to their requirement??

 

[Ajit Basrur]

Thanks Peter. I do agree that Ka Pilo's flow chart would suffice but wanted to give my for improvement.

 

[Peter Fraser]

Thanks Peter. I do agree that Ka Pilo's flow chart would suffice but wanted to give my for improvement.

Ajit

Yes, I know! [Maybe I was saying that in this case "good enough" is enough, and that focusing on having clear objectives and how they are met is key...]

 

[Ka Pilo]

Hi i'm hesiting to send this comment
why do you have in the first column " suppliers" ? are they your customer that you have to satisfy the request ?? normaly, you received an order form customer and try in the end to answer to their requirement??

You are right. The input came from customer requirements. I liked Ajit and Peter's points. And of course, tsmith's value-added guidance.