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C/A (Corrective Action) not closed in a timely manner

R

Romanel

#21
The absolute worst thing you could do at this point is go at the production manager with a dictionary. You're trying to deal with problems that are beyond your control. Your priorities and those of the production manager are different, and he's going to do what he feels is in his best interests every time.

The best thing you can do at this point is to sit down with him and discuss the situation. Make sure he understands that your priorities and his have to merge at some point. Listen to him. If your relationship is adversarial at this point, that's the problem you need to work on, not what "now" means. Ask him to help you.

I agree with Jim

the two functions (Quality and Manufacturing) have different tasks: Production must produce to sell (or so he sees him), and you, among other things, must ensure that their work meets certain criteria.

And on this road that you have to go in my opinion, you have to be smart, let him know that you know how important is his work, etc.. but, and this is where you bet, your work, "unfortunately" requires to check the work of the others, and to ensure this you need your contribution, and so on.
Remember, inside your company you are in a “privileged” position but at the same time also a bit "unlucky", you should check the work of others and not expect that by opening corrective actions towards others, they will jump of joy may, in fact often also be against you, so you have to be very good at justifying everything with authority, competence and also a lot of cunning - the communication should be your first skill, even before the technical expertise.
If help you, I tell you that I also have had (and I still have) some "small problem" with the production, but I always try to get along, I make some minor compromises but never loses of sight my objective: ensure that quality is done as it should be: well.
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ciao
 

embedded

Involved In Discussions
#22
Where in the ISO specification does it state corrective actions must be handled in a timely manner? I thought section 10 mentioned this but I can't find it, the best I can find is in section 9.2.2.e talking about internal audits... I'd like to open a CAR for having multiple CARs open for over a year without any form of a response, but can't find a requirement we're violating.
 

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Staff member
Admin
#23
In 9.3.2, management review inputs, you are expected to go over trends of nonconformites and corrective actions. If there are chronically delinquent issues that don’t get responded to, chances are, you have derelict top management, or whoever is providing input into the review sessions is failing to do his/her job.
 

embedded

Involved In Discussions
#24
Thanks, that's exactly what happened. In our last management meeting(they were held annually...) we identified this issue as a concern and decided a CAR needed to be opened. I'm new to quality so a little unsure how to write this up. Would you recommend we site 9.3.2 section c and subsection 4 then site a trend was identified in a management review meeting, such that corrective actions were not being taken in a timely manner then state the specifics(car # x open for 14 months with no corrections, root cause, etc)?

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Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Staff member
Admin
#25
Open another CAR? And assign it to whom? "Top Management"? Why don't they simply do their job and "exercise their authority" and demand the delinquent people to provide corrective action responses and implement them, in a timely manner.

I see no benefit in triggering yet another CAR, unless someone is trying to cover their @sses for an external audit. It is clear that that the A is amiss in the PDCA cycle there. A is for Acting.
 

Jim Wynne

Super Moderator
#26
Thanks, that's exactly what happened. In our last management meeting(they were held annually...) we identified this issue as a concern and decided a CAR needed to be opened. I'm new to quality so a little unsure how to write this up. Would you recommend we site 9.3.2 section c and subsection 4 then site a trend was identified in a management review meeting, such that corrective actions were not being taken in a timely manner then state the specifics(car # x open for 14 months with no corrections, root cause, etc)?
What do your internal requirements say about it? That's what you should cite in a CAR if you were to go ahead and open another one, but I second Sidney's advice.
 

embedded

Involved In Discussions
#27
With out airing all the dirty laundry(I submitted my resignation as quality manager - looking for my replacement now), this to me is evidence the corrective action process is broken and needs to be fixed. Unfortunately I've been ineffective in fixing it as I'm unable to convince top management to take action. I've attempted to explain why we need to take action without referencing the ISO requirements, but the only way I'm able to get them to listen to me is if I tell them we violated an ISO requirements(e.g. we need to write a CAR).

Although, you are right this was also a CYA in hopes we wouldn't be written up by the registrar auditor(we were audited just after the management meeting). I told the management team we would be written up(after asking month after month for them to take action - we have monthly quality meetings with the management team), so we could write ourselves up and answer to ourselves or we could answer to the registrar... I know this is not the right approach for the quality manager to be taking, but I feel like if I can't get top management to listen to me I can't do my job effectively, hence me submitting my resignation. At the end of the day they see ISO as a sales cost that enables them to do business with large customers that require ISO. In situations like this where ISO doesn't align with how they want to run the business, I've been unable to influence them...
 
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