CAD Print Conflicts with the Customer Supplied Paper Drawing

R

R. Webb

#1
Is there a standard or accepted practice when a CAD file submitted by a customer conflicts with the customer supplied paper drawing? In the customer initiated rush to production a small detail on the paper drawing was overlooked. However, the detail was not in the customer supplied CAD file used to program the machines that blanked out the part. I am not sure how to proceed with root cause analysis as we check the part using the CAD file.
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor

SteelMaiden

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
#2
Re: CAD Print Conflicts

Well, first of all, your customer doesn't have very good control of his system does he? So, is the part(s) you have made nonconforming, or did you catch it before production? IMHO, the one they gave you last should be the one that is correct, so if they gave you a paper copy then sent a CAD drawing the expectation would be that the CAD drawing superceded the paper. They should be responsible for reimbursing you for the product that has been produced (realistically, you will need to come up with an agreed upon figure as they probably will not want to pay full price). Good luck.
 
T

trainerbob

#3
Re: CAD Print Conflicts

This is the wrong forum for this question. This situation requires discussion with your customer. Hopefully you get it ironed out before it costs either of you too much money.
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#4
Is there a standard or accepted practice when a CAD file submitted by a customer conflicts with the customer supplied paper drawing? In the customer initiated rush to production a small detail on the paper drawing was overlooked. However, the detail was not in the customer supplied CAD file used to program the machines that blanked out the part. I am not sure how to proceed with root cause analysis as we check the part using the CAD file.
As far as root cause is concerned, there are two issues, one of which deals with liability, the other with protecting yourself against stupid customers.

As far as liability is concerned, I think the customer should take responsibility and pay for whatever this winds up costing. Assuming that the CAD file and its paper counterpart do not conflict is reasonable; one has to assume some level of control on the part of the customer, especially if, as you suggest, you were being rushed (although the customer being in a hurry should be considered a warning).

As for your own contract review process, you now know that you need to make sure that there are no conflicts in the specifications, regardless of the medium of transfer. I know of companies that make explicit statements on drawings that the CAD file is "master," but you can do something similar by adding language to your agreements with customers to the effect that when specifications are provided as CAD data and paper drawings, the CAD file will be considered master in the event of conflicts.
 

Marc

Fully vaccinated are you?
Staff member
Admin
#5
Re: CAD Print Conflicts

This is the wrong forum for this question. <snip>
Essentially the idea is to get some feedback here, and hopefully some ammunition for the eventual showdown.

I've been through similar situations. If a contract is agreed to based upon a paper print and then the customer sends a CAD file later, the CAD file is checked against the print. If they don't match perfectly the CAD file is rejected back to the customer. When a customer submits a CAD file and it doesn't match or is revved (say the original paper print was rev. 2 and the CAD file was rev. 3), and the customer decides the CAD file is what they want (rather than the original paper file that was agreed to) it triggers a new contract review cycle including possible cost increases if extra costs would be incurred due to the change.

Jim has some very good points on this type of situation in his post, by the by.
 
R

R. Webb

#6
Re: CAD Print Conflicts

Marc, Jim and Steel - Good answers. In a small shop like I am in we don't have the resources to review things twice. I will see if putting language in the quote will pass muster with management.

Thanks again!
 

Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#7
Re: CAD Print Conflicts

Marc, Jim and Steel - Good answers. In a small shop like I am in we don't have the resources to review things twice. I will see if putting language in the quote will pass muster with management.

Thanks again!
It's either that or pay the price :mg: ; something a small shop (or any organization) can ill afford...

Stijloor.
 

Wes Bucey

Prophet of Profit
#8
I tend to agree with both Jim and Marc here. The essential problem is a breakdown in your own organization's Contract Review. The fact the customer supplied conflicting prints (paper and CAD) should have been recognized BEFORE you began manufacture.

If I were the arbiter trying to sort out whether the customer owed you money for the SNAFU, I might have chided the customer for its laxness in configuration management, but I would assign 100% of the cost to your company.

ERGO: root cause is simple - your organization, when faced with instructions (the drawings) in two different media (paper and electronic), had a duty to compare the two for anomalies. Good practice would have dictated prior agreement with customer on how the manufactured item would be inspected, which most likely would have included a controlling document. Did your inspectors inspect while viewing the CAD file on a computer screen or did they work from a printout? IF from a printout, whatever happened to the original paper drawing supplied by the customer? Were CAD file and paper drawing dated or versioned? Was one more recent than the other? Were there any obvious alterations to the paper copy (redlining in aerospace) which might have been a clue to its being the more recent version?

In terms of making NICE NICE with the customer, you can hope for a negotiated delay to avoid nonconformance on delivery date, BUT be sure to nail down inspection criteria (characteristics, attributes, AND class of instruments used for each feature) BEFORE you start again. I would confess the discrepancy was not noted - remain quiet after that - the customer may "offer" to subsidize the extra cost out of guilt for its own laxness, but don't hold your breath.
 
R

R. Webb

#10
Wes,
Ahhh theres the rub - the customer found it at their incomming inspection. There were not many parts or dollars involved so in this particular case the arguements are academic. However, I disagree with your analysis that the customer is not at fault for supplying two different specifications for the same part. The quoting process does not review two sets of drawings, electronic or paper, and the part is expected to be made from the CAD drawing as that is what programs our machines. That's why my company has a niche - if you give me a CAD file I can, in many instances, get you a part the same day. Even complex parts if they do not require outside vendors. Customers generally want part fast especially if there are only 5 to 10 pieces.

However, I agree that we should have caught it as well. Both companies are at fault in their review process. In the end though the customer will win as it is much easier to remove business from a vendor than to turn it away from a customer!

Again good discussion here on this one!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
K Verify paper print to CAD file so we can use the CAD models for inspection purposes Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 8
M Design Control - Management of Electronic CAD files Design and Development of Products and Processes 14
Q Version/Revision Control of CAD files Document Control Systems, Procedures, Forms and Templates 2
DuncanGibbons Looking for example aerospace part CAD files to be used for a case study Career and Occupation Discussions 2
B Gauge CAD certification to Part CAD vs. Gauge certification to Part CAD General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 1
B Creation of CAD solid models using customers supplied drawings AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 7
F CMM Scanning Feature Delays - Brown and Sharpe automatic CMM using PC-DMIS CAD 4.3 Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 2
Q How to Control CAD Drawings provided to Suppliers? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 2
P Controlling Solidworks model, CAD & Gerber files Document Control Systems, Procedures, Forms and Templates 3
apestate Are detailed blueprints or CAD drawings of aircraft available? Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) Standards and Requirements 7
N Validation of CAD Software used to generate our Engineering Drawings? Qualification and Validation (including 21 CFR Part 11) 11
N GD&T Curriculum for our Inspectors and CAD Technicians Training - Internal, External, Online and Distance Learning 14
M List of documents required for engineering service project (CAD/CAM) AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 4
J ISO 9001 3D CAD Data File Naming Conventions ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 6
K CMM to 3D CAD Communication - IGIS and DXF files Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 7
M CAD files in a submission to FDA ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 1
C CAD Viewers You Have Used - Need something to view CATIA v 4.2 and Unigraphics NX2 Document Control Systems, Procedures, Forms and Templates 5
B CMM Software Package? Looking for recomendations on PCDMIS CAD v3.7mr1 General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 1
N Signature for CAD / Engineering Drawings and ISO9000 requirements Quality Assurance and Compliance Software Tools and Solutions 3
R Point Cloud Technology Validation - Point Cloud to CAD model comparisons for FAIR General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 2
A Software Validation - CAD-type program that will produce Engineering drawings ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 11
D 4.2.4.6 - Computer-aided design - Cad-type program for tooling drawings? Design and Development of Products and Processes 1
J CAD Files vs. Blueprints - How are people controlling customer supplied CAD files? Document Control Systems, Procedures, Forms and Templates 2
H AS9100 D - 8.1.2 Configuration Management for Build-to-Print Service Provider AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 1
J Print Requirements Manufacturing and Related Processes 9
S ISO 2768-mk print call out Other ISO and International Standards and European Regulations 11
S Annual Inspection Layout - Based on Customer print ? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 8
qualprod Automation in manufacturing - Print Shop ISO 9001 ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 13
J Gear Surface Finish - Print with the word "calibrated" Manufacturing and Related Processes 2
V Customer Print Specifications on PFMEA FMEA and Control Plans 13
B FAI and ANSI Y14.5 Trailing Zeros and Print Tolerances Manufacturing and Related Processes 3
CycleMike GD&T - Hole pattern - Print (attached) has a single Datum Reference Frame Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 4
S Yellow print VDA 4 VDA Standards - Germany's Automotive Standards 0
Ron Rompen Location of features identified on Print - Feature out of location Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 3
G ISO 9001 8.4 applied to 7.1.3 - Suppliers of infrastructure requirements - IT and Print solutions ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 4
E Question on GD&T added to print - Positional callout for the small holes Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 3
P Print Control Box - What does this dimension say? Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 4
E Conflicting dimensions on customer print Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 9
qualprod Criteria for print shop - How do you consider the cycle time in a print shop? Lean in Manufacturing and Service Industries 21
D Drawing (print) does not specify restrained or free state Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 2
G Decimal places on Drawing (Print) Callouts Measurement Uncertainty (MU) 7
E Print only has Reference Dimensions Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 5
S AS9102 - Clarification - PO asking for an Assembly at Rev B (Print at Rev C) AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 3
Q Surface Roughness - Conversion of RS on a Print to RZ General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 3
P New Yellow Print VDA 6.3 (2016) VDA Standards - Germany's Automotive Standards 10
E Position of a milled hex - Print Callout Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 3
D Multiple Features With Only One Toleranced on the Print Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 12
K Assumed Alignment and Assumed Datum on a Print Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 4
R How To Calculate & Print CDF and Lower Bound CDF value for some t(time) with Minitab? Using Minitab Software 1
J Deformation specification not defined in print Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 1

Similar threads

Top Bottom