Calculating the IATF TS 16949 Recertification Audit Man Days - Clarification

[martin.valdes]

Hi All; I just was transfered to the quality systems area in the same company, a contract manufacturing company we have the ISO/TS 16949 certification, this year our certificate will expire that's why I am trying to calculate the recertification audit man days, I have on hand the Rules for achieving IATF recognition and the IAF MD5-2009 -QMS-EMS for consult but I can not understand the second part statement into the IAF MD5 section 6 paragraph 6.1, can someone clarify this for me? is the 2/3 applicable for a recertification process or not?. appreciate your help

 

[Jen Kirley]

Hi Martin,

I am afraid I do not understand your question fully.

Are you a single site or will there be multiple sites?

How many employees at each site?

How many shifts at each site?

Are there design activities at the site?

Are any functions split off to other sites, such as design or warehousing?

Are there nonconformances from last year to review?

Given answers to these criteria, your CB can give you a manday estimate. Have you asked them?

 

[Howard Atkins]

Hi All; I just was transfered to the quality systems area in the same company, a contract manufacturing company we have the ISO/TS 16949 certification, this year our certificate will expire that's why I am trying to calculate the recertification audit man days, I have on hand the Rules for achieving IATF recognition and the IAF MD5-2009 -QMS-EMS for consult but I can not understand the second part statement into the IAF MD5 section 6 paragraph 6.1, can someone clarify this for me? is the 2/3 applicable for a recertification process or not?. appreciate your help

IAF and their mandatory documents have no connection to TS certification or the IATF
TS only works according to the TS rules and the only accreditation body is IATF.
The CBs are audited to the rules and not to ISO 17021 for TS certifications so the mandays are only according to the rules 5.2

 

[martin.valdes]

Thanks to all;

Hi Jennifer,
We have a corporate scheme, with 1 manufacturing site in Mexico with 875 employees (this site is ISO/TS), in US have manufacturing site with 166 employees, (this site is only ISO and support for Mexico ops), a warehouse site with 47 employees (support for Mexico ops) and purchasing offices with 10 employees (support for both Mexico and US Ops). there are no nonconformities and we have design excluded from our scope scheme.
Thanks for your help and support

 

[martin.valdes]

Hi
the question still there regarding to the 2/3 is or not applicable the complete IAF text is as follow:

6 RECERTIFICATION
6.1 The duration of the recertification audit should be calculated on the basis of the updated
information of the client and is normally approximately 2/3 of the time that would be required for
an initial certification audit (Stage 1 + Stage 2) of the organization if such an initial audit were to
be carried out at the time of recertification (i.e. not 2/3 of the original initial certification audit
duration). The audit duration shall take account the outcome of the review of system performance

The first part of the text is understable but for me the second part is a little bit confuse.

 

[Randy Lefferts]

I am not entirely sure I understand what you are asking but will give a go as if I did

Let's say your initial certification would require 6 mandays of auditing. After you have the certification audit performed (6 mandays) you will then have periodic recertification audits. The recertification audits would take 4 mandays (2/3*6 mandays), assuming your employee count didn't change from the initial audit. However, we are using the initial certification of mandays to determine this as if nothing has changed (and it may not have.)

The 2nd part is saying that when it comes time to recertify, you need to recalculate what it would take (regarding mandays) to audit based on the current state of the company, not what it was when you initially certified. So you would look at your number of employees, locations and determine how many mandays it would take for an intial certification, THEN take 2/3's of that and that would be the mandays needed for the recertification audit.

While it might not make sense to those whose situations (employees remain the same, locations remains the same) think of the situation where a company goes through a downsizing of employees. The current number of employees might result in a lower number of mandays needed to audit. (Same could be said of a location increasing their number of employees, thus resulting in additional manday(s) needed to audit.)

If I have misunderstood, disregard my post

 

[martin.valdes]

Thanks to all;

I already agreed with our Registrar the audit man days based on the ISO/TS rules table 5.2 and using the annex 2 example 6.

thanx: