Calibrate customer unit w/ our standard, then calibrate their standard?

J

JerryStem

#1
I have a question for those more knowledgeable than myself. Try to keep it simple:

Our newest tech went to a customer site w/ a calibration standard of a copper thickness in a thru-hole. He was to calibrate their unit w/ the standard, and did so.

While he was there, he was asked to certify/calibrate their standards for the unit. He didn't have a unit of ours to do this so he used their unit, which he had just calibrated, and checked their standards against his.

Is there anything thru 17025, or Z540L, that says this can't be done? I found a few references in 17025 and the site cal. requirements that talk about using equipment out of our control, but if he just certified their unit couldn't it be said it was functioning correctly and met the requirements of the standard?

The standards he checked there are the same as the one we have, and if he had sent it in to me, I would have used the same type of unit to certify it.

The only fault I can find is he wasn't supposed to do standards in the field per our own quality system, and he's been notified of this.

I can't find anything wrong with it, but I don't like using the customers equipment to check their standards...
 
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Jerry Eldred

Forum Moderator
Super Moderator
#2
I'll give you a few different answers...

First, I would say it is a matter of policy (yours and theirs).

Regarding ISO17025 (which would apply to accredited cals only), it I believe it can not be done, as it must be in your scope of accreditation, the standards used must be accredited and be under your control (and other implications).

Regarding generally speaking, it is sometimes done, but should generally be avoided due to the implications of standards not being under your control. Labs I have been in have done so with customer agreement. So in terms of general metrological principles (not including ISO17025 - in a class by itself), if it is within your policy and that of the customer, the standard used is adequate for the application, is in current calibration, an appropriate method is used, and environmental conditions are acceptable, I think it is legitimate.

One of the important bottom lines here is mutual agreement with the customer, as it it most impacts their measurement quality.

Some of the more knowledgeable ISO17025 folks may have more to say (but definitely not under ISO17025).
 

BradM

Staff member
Admin
#3
:topic:

Jerry, good to see you pop back in. I hope life is treating you well outside of Texas. :D

Great post, BTW.

My only thing I am missing (or misunderstanding) is the heirarchy here. Any equipment calibrating other equipment needs to be superior in uncertainty, and should be identified as an equivalent standard in the applicable procedure.

That is probably the case here; I just wanted to clarify.
 
J

JerryStem

#4
A little clarification: the standard our tech had with him was under our control, part of our scope of accreditation and followed our procedures as far as environment, etc...

My issue was he used the standard to calibrate the machine, as he was supposed to, but then used THEIR machine to calibrate their standard with HIS standard.

I can't find anything under 17025, site reqts, cal reqts, etc... that specifically says he can't do this, even though I don't like it. Supposedly the customer asked for this, "it wasn't an option". :rolleyes:
 
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