Calibrating Thermometer with Simulated Output Temperature from Fluke 5520A

S

syndrome

#1
Hello!

I'm trying to calibrate a thermometer (fluke 52 II) with the simulated output of the Fluke 5520A.

The problem is that there is about 2-2.5°C of error!
I set 0°, it starts measuring for example -1°C and after a couple of minute it goes to -2.5°C or something so (the problem is that the compensation of the 5520 change output millivoltage).

It does the same error with my fluke 741b..

If i put a thermocouple in a thermalbath, it measure perfectly.

Also, where is my fault? I do an error, but i don't understand what kind of..
I don't want to measure it with the thermocouple, because I need to calibrate the instrument not the thermocouple..

thank's to anyone who can help me :)
 
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Jerry Eldred

Forum Moderator
Super Moderator
#2
I am very visual in such things. If your 5520A is well warmed up, and you've done the zero cal fairly recently, it should not drift (unless it has a problem). If the 5520A is a little older, there could be some contamination on the connectors.

As for the interface, if you are doing J, using a male mini to male mini patch cable using all type J materials. You may try cleaning all of the connectors off on the cable, and verify that the screws that hold the J wire on to the mini male TC connectors are clean and tight. Then try re-seating the connectors a few times repetitively at the Fluke meter and at the 5520A. If that doesn't cause any changes, try a different handheld meter to see if it functions the same. If you try a different meter and it works fine, then this meter is bad. If you try a different meter and it has the same problems, then possibly your 5520A is bad.

I can't guarantee this is the problem, that is how I would personally toubleshoot. Hope that my help.
 

Hershal

Metrologist-Auditor
Staff member
Super Moderator
#3
CALULATE YOUR UNCERTAINTY!

The 5520A is a great instument and will calibrate a Fluke 52 directly. However, the uncertainties must be calculated to understand what is truly occurring.

Neither the 5520A nor the 52 generally drfit, but thermocouples, thermometers, and similar may drift. You need to know the effect each influence gives you, and only an uncertainty study can do that.
 
D

dv8shane

#4
CALULATE YOUR UNCERTAINTY!

The 5520A is a great instument and will calibrate a Fluke 52 directly. However, the uncertainties must be calculated to understand what is truly occurring.
I agree you must be able to estimate uncertainty at the very least.

However I would not use a 5520A to calibrate a 52II Looking at the specification at 0.0 C it is 0.3C for the 52II and the 5520A is approximately 0.16 then at 120-1000 C it drops to 0.26 if you take into account the contribution of resolution and repeatability of the UUT in the uncertainty of the system, the Test Uncertainty Ratio drops to low to issue a conformance statement. A better method may be to use the dc V output into an ice bath with T/C to copper compensation leads or a calibrated compensation probe.
 

BradM

Staff member
Admin
#5
I agree you must be able to estimate uncertainty at the very least.

However I would not use a 5520A to calibrate a 52II Looking at the specification at 0.0 C it is 0.3C for the 52II and the 5520A is approximately 0.16 then at 120-1000 C it drops to 0.26 if you take into account the contribution of resolution and repeatability of the UUT in the uncertainty of the system, the Test Uncertainty Ratio drops to low to issue a conformance statement. A better method may be to use the dc V output into an ice bath with T/C to copper compensation leads or a calibrated compensation probe.
Total agreement. :applause::agree1:


Now... having said all of that, there should not be this much drift in simulating the T/C signal.

One thing you might want to do is verify where the issue is. First, connect the thermocouple to the 5520A and set it for read. At room temperature it will show you what the Cold Junction Compensator is reading. Or, put the thermocouple tip in room temperature water. Regardless, the reading should be fairly stable. If the reading is jumping around a degree or so (like you saw with the Fluke 52), then you have an issue with the CJC on the 5520.

Secondly, you need to test the CJC on the Fluke 52 also. It could be acting erratic (although you stated the Fluke 741 does OK).

dv8shane has laid out a good testing plan for you.:agree1: The only thing I would do is use an accurate (calibrated if you have one) and test the CJC at zero. If you have other temperature environments (oil bath and such) then test it at different temperatures.

I could see the 5520 contributing .2-.3°C to the uncertainty, but not 2°C or more. Something seems to be off a bit. :)

Add edit: Also, make sure the Fluke 52 has a fresh battery in it. :)
 
Last edited:
F

FrancoG

#6
Hello,

After thanking for your inputs, I would like to as a question about uncertainies for the calibration of a temperature indicator (i.e. Fluke 51II) using the temperature simulation output of the Fluke 5500A.
The setup used is the one stated in the Fluke 5500A manual where the UUT (Fluke 51II) is connected to the Fluke 5500A T/C output using T/C wire of the same type (let's say type K for this discussion). In my case I prepared a very short cable, 2 inches long, with corresponding connectors on both sides in order to have the UUT as close as possible to the reference and minimize temperature differences between the two ends.

The readings are very accurate and repeatable with maximum deviations of 0.1 ?C at higher temp values.

In the uncertainty budget I have included the repeatbility, the UUT resolution (0.1) and the Fluke 5500A specs. I also added 2 microvolts of parasitic voltage picked up by the T/C wire.

My confusion comes with regarding the T/C wire error and how it should be included as uncertainty. I am using a Type K SLE wire with 1.1 ?C error. If I include 1.1 ?C in the budget with 3 sigma, the expanded uncertainty is too high with a TUR below 1:1, which is not acceptable for metrological traceability. I see other labs certs (ISO 17025 accredited) stating uncertanties far lower than the one I am getting using a similar or worst equipment (i.e. Fluke 741B). Their uncertainties are even lower than the I one get without the T/C error component.

Can someone please help me understand how the T/C should be treated in the budget for such calibration method and setup? I would appreciate it a lot.

Thank you and have a nice day!
 
D

dv8shane

#7
Hello,

In the uncertainty budget I have included the repeatbility, the UUT resolution (0.1) and the Fluke 5500A specs. I also added 2 microvolts of parasitic voltage picked up by the T/C wire.

My confusion comes with regarding the T/C wire error and how it should be included as uncertainty. I am using a Type K SLE wire with 1.1 ?C error. If I include 1.1 ?C in the budget with 3 sigma, the expanded uncertainty is too high with a TUR below 1:1, which is not acceptable for metrological traceability. I see other labs certs (ISO 17025 accredited) stating uncertanties far lower than the one I am getting using a similar or worst equipment (i.e. Fluke 741B). Their uncertainties are even lower than the I one get without the T/C error component.

Can someone please help me understand how the T/C should be treated in the budget for such calibration method and setup? I would appreciate it a lot.

Thank you and have a nice day!
I personally do not include the wire as the specification 1.1 degrees C is for a thermocouple junction made from the wire not its ability to transmit voltage from the calibrator to the UUT.
 
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