Calibration and Customer 'Requirements' - Something Stupid Beyond Belief

dsanabria

Quite Involved in Discussions
#31
You missed the T"Titanic"

The topic is - Best practices on issues we all face each day with customer / supplier. The original statements was a good story of an event....

What do we do in the future... not who is right VS wrong....


..
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor
J
#32
“To me the problem is that the system described in my posts allowed for a greater, not lesser, chance of test failure due to a bad gage.”
I would say it is not a question of if there is a possibility of a test failure due to a possible bad gage, it is wither there is even a remote possibility of a failed part making it through the checks. If the gage showed bad upon return, the parts are still held (due to the gage failure, unknown if prior or after tests, or bad parts). Error is on the side of caution. This would be repeated until (after gage correction) it shows good. Parts never had a chance to get past though.
In relation to the bolded section....The funny thing is that most of the time the units were NOT held until the post test verification. Generally the order was so hot that the customer wanted them shipped immediately....So - if the gage was found to be bad, the units would have had to be sent back to us for retest....

Peace
James
 
A

adickerson

#33
I don't know how the parts are used in the overall process so I may be a little off here. My guess is if the parts are that absolutely critical that they need the time an expense of this whole process they they should be tested on receipt at the customer. So, it would make sense to just use local calibration for pre-shipment inspection. Then you know - do a incoming inspection in a nuke proficient facility after the parts spent hours in the back of a freight truck.

Pre-inspection performed by the shipping facility to reduce risk and final pre-assembly inspection using the "best" certified gauges by some one familiar with the ultimate customer demands. Then there just needs to be a plan for what happens if a part ships passing inspection and then fails on incoming inspection and in that case you get to figure out if the gauge system or freight created the problem. Having the gauges bounce around in a hand courier situation is one thing. Having the actual component bounced around between forklift drivers and freight companies is something else.

Further more if the pre-shipment inspection process what reviewed "simi satisfactory" by both the customer and the customer's customer then it should be good enough to get out the door to a facility that can to the final testing. I say "simi satisfactory" because it does not sound like they had a problem with the measurement process, just that your system didn't have the right certification.

I guess it may be a little unfair to push the problem back up the chain to the customer but that seems to be exactly what the customer's customer wants - to have a nuke experienced company do the final review. I know this is a old case but that is how I would have approached it.
 
K

KateB

#34
Re: Something Stupid Beyond Belief -

I so agree with Al....the first thing that came to my mind after reading this was what if the gages once repaired and while being carried back to the company got damaged again........
 

Hershal

Metrologist-Auditor
Staff member
Super Moderator
#35
With respect to the original post, a couple of thoughts come to mind.

The NRC is the Fed agency, but each nuke plant has their own version responsible for local control. Sometimes they agree and sometimes they do not. That could be the situation here.

Accreditation under ISO/IEC 17025:2005 should be a meas for reducing additional requirement. I realize that was 1990 before this was around, but much more recently the NRC has been working with accreditation.
 
M

mecramur

#37
It may look like a strange request from the customer of the customer but as other have said it is certainly driven by a CAPA at the end user which is not visible due to being twice removed.

I do not question that there are better ways then the one they requested. They are writing procedures to control a process that they are twice removed from, your process.

The process you were using of a high quality calibrated reference to verify the tooling gauge periodically makes plenty of sense and is easier to manage with less risk.



Still, the customer is always right:)

As long as they are paying for it...

Note, we do not say the customer is always wise;)
 

Big Jim

Super Moderator
#38
It may look like a strange request from the customer of the customer but as other have said it is certainly driven by a CAPA at the end user which is not visible due to being twice removed.

I do not question that there are better ways then the one they requested. They are writing procedures to control a process that they are twice removed from, your process.

The process you were using of a high quality calibrated reference to verify the tooling gauge periodically makes plenty of sense and is easier to manage with less risk.



Still, the customer is always right:)

As long as they are paying for it...

Note, we do not say the customer is always wise;)
The way I like to say it is that the customer may not always be right, but he is always the customer.
 
S

strange1

#40
Hate to knock the dust off some threads, however this hit home for me. I'm in the Pharmaceutical industry... this situation is only one of so many I've encountered.

I just smile say "You Got It" and move on.

So far Karma has come around several times.

It's a shame common sense isn't so common.
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
S Calibration/Verification of customer fixtures IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 6
G Measure 3 times, for calibration report? Customer Owned Reference Standard General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 4
S No Calibration Due Date on a Calibration Certificate unless requested by a customer? Calibration Frequency (Interval) 9
K Calibration Overdue on Customer-owned Gauges Calibration Frequency (Interval) 5
N Auto email reminder sent to customer - Calibration Due Notices Calibration and Metrology Software and Hardware 5
A Need to Audit an External Calibration Laboratory? - Customer Audit Finding Other Medical Device Regulations World-Wide 5
S Inspection Kits for Each Customer Part: Calibration and Asset Control? General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 1
Q Calibration through Gage Blocks/Test Fixtures/Customer Supplied ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 11
R Customer Satisfaction in Calibration - What? General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 5
J Calibration intervals - Expiration dates on our certificates w/out customer approval Calibration Frequency (Interval) 3
Marc Customer Audit of Guide 25 Calibration - Full pre and post adjustment data? General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 1
lanley liao Question regarding the calibration of monitoring and measure equipment. Oil and Gas Industry Standards and Regulations 0
N IATF Calibration Lean in Manufacturing and Service Industries 3
Q Do these certificates of calibration meet ISO 9001 requirements for traceability to NIST? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 10
T Plug Gage Calibration Calibration and Metrology Software and Hardware 1
M Load Cell Calibration using a totalizer on a flow meter General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 0
E Calibration Records needed ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 1
D Limited Range Calibration - 5000 lb Industrial floor scale General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 3
D Calibration of Small Scales General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 26
C How to Establish the Calibration & Measurement Capability (CMC)? ISO 17025 related Discussions 1
I IQOQ or just initial calibration required? General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 3
B Calibration in real life ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 3
J Calibration cycle for monitoring & measuring tools used in medical device manufacturing General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 5
A Is calibration of test weight required General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 4
S Calibration Frequency for Slip Gauge Kit used for CMM Calibration? General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 0
Ron Rompen Calibration by manufacturer ISO 17025 related Discussions 4
Q Calibration verification records 7.1.5.2.1 IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 2
B AS9100D 7.1.5.2 Calibration or Verification Method using outside cal lab AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 1
W Next Calibration Due Date Calibration Frequency (Interval) 5
S Where do l get calibration standards to run a calibration lab? Other ISO and International Standards and European Regulations 2
A OEM On-Site Calibration issues during Covid19 ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 12
D Calibration tolerance question using Pipettes Medical Device and FDA Regulations and Standards News 1
M Calibration Certificate Result issued by an accredited external laboratory General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 9
G Calibration of "Master Parts" Used as Gauges Calibration Frequency (Interval) 5
R Calibration lab environmental monitoring General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 4
G Calibration of Rotronic probe but not digital readout? General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 3
F Standard Calibration Procedures: Recommended Practice ISO 17025 related Discussions 0
T Temperature Requirements For In House Calibration - AS9100 AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 16
B Gage calibration frequency, ISO and IATF - What are the requirements Calibration Frequency (Interval) 3
Crimpshrine13 Laboratory Scope - Calibration vs. Test Methods - IATF 16949 IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 3
Crimpshrine13 Calibration of pH Meter Probe Calibration and Metrology Software and Hardware 3
F ESD workbench "calibration" Manufacturing and Related Processes 2
C Correct Calibration Method for Dial Depth Gage General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 6
F Nist traceable calibration certificates General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 1
G Tool tracebility and First calibration requirements for aerospace (AS9100) organisation AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 5
D Calibration of Digital thermometer with surface probe General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 1
T Calibration or Verification -> Cm and Cmk, etc. Definitions, Acronyms, Abbreviations and Interpretations Listed Alphabetically 3
G Is repeatability required for equipment calibration? General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 10
was named killer AS 9100D - Calibration Instructions - Controlled documents? AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 6
B Photovoltaic Tester Calibration General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 0

Similar threads

Top Bottom