SBS - The best value in QMS software

Calibration and Heirarchy of Standards

M

Mark W

#1
I work at a small automotive manufacturing company (approximately 100 employees at my division) and have been working in the quality department for a couple of years now. Our calibration program is pretty weak and we are attempting to rebuild and strengthen the system.
While working on this project I am strugling with the concept of "calibrating against certified equipment having a known valid relationship to nationally recognized standards". I am not sure if a gage has to be calibrated directly to our highest in-house standard, or if calibrating a gage to this standard and then using this gage to calibrate another measuring instrument is acceptable or not.
A typical example is as follows. I was informed by someone that our gage pin set(pins in increments of .001") has to be sent out to an outside lab for calibration and thereby recieve a certification that is traceable to NIST. The only gaging that we currently do this for is our highest in-house standard, a set of gage blocks. These blocks are used to maintain traceability to NIST with our in-house calibrations. The pin set is a shop floor working set that is used for a variety of tasks, i.e. measuring a depth over a radius broached feature with OD Mics., go/no-go diameters of holes and slots, etc. My question is this. Is it acceptable practice to calibrate a set of .0001" OD mics. against our highest level gage block set, and then calibrate the pin set with the micrometers? I understand that the measuring accuracy of what I am using the pins for will probably impact the justification for this so what if instead I carried out the same procedure but instead of using an OD micrometer, I used a laser micrometer with an accuracy of +/- .00002"?
I am trying to justify what are acceptable calibration methods to industry standards at a level that will ensure our gages will adequately provide quality product at the most economical cost. Please help.
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor

Kevin Mader

One of THE Original Covers!
Staff member
Admin
#2
Mark,

I have used a similar approach with our inhouse calibration activities with success. The registrar who reviewed this area was concerned that the general calibration record keeping was current, complete, was done by a trained associate, and demonstrated the "10 factor". The Registrar was also looking to see what percentage of calibration we did inhouse vs. sending out. He mentioned that he was happy to see that only the gaging we did not have the inhouse expertise to handle was sourced out. Remember: compliance and "effectiveness".

Using a micrometer to calibrate a pin gage, under most circumstances, is sufficient. Using a super mic or a laser mic is better, but not necessarily necessary (use the 10 Factor, 10x as sensitive). Use what gives you the most security. Just be sure that you are aware of the class of the Master gage blocks (probably the highest class) and the pin/plug sets and if the pin/plug sets are plus or minus pins.

I have read that many companies tend to send out all their gages for calibration to either avoid having to understand the qualifying/calibration activities or because they don't want to do it. This is neither cost effective or necessary. Your attempt to contain cost is, in my opinion, correct. A good, quick read you may want to consider is "Managing the Metrology System" by C. Robert Pennella. It will give you a pretty good overview of the Metrology process.

Back to the group...

[This message has been edited by Kevin Mader (edited 02-12-99).]
 

Marc

Hunkered Down for the Duration with a Mask on...
Staff member
Admin
#3
All I can do is echo the 10X factor and that even though you send them out, someone still has to understand measurement systems (per MSA). Being automotive you have to do more than for ISO.
 
B

Batman

#5
I too echo Kevin and Mark, and add a couple of items to consider.
If the pin calibration by your own equipment serves, and can help reduce costs, go for it. I have seen this work well, and I have seen it deteriorate. Pins for example will wear at the edges, depending upon the product being measured, and unless you can detect this with your calibration equipment you could pass bad parts. Using a super mic or Laser, care must be taken to be able to detect this wear.

Also, since the Laser is a two-point contact method, any odd-numbered lobing on the pins may not be detected.

If you are using these pins to measure and approve features that are "critical," the calibration procedure and records should stand up to scrutiny.

I recommend good calibration procedures, good records, and a controlled environment for that calibration.

Just a couple of things to consider.
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
D Limited Range Calibration - 5000 lb Industrial floor scale General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 3
D Calibration of Small Scales General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 24
C How to Establish the Calibration & Measurement Capability (CMC)? ISO 17025 related Discussions 1
I IQOQ or just initial calibration required? General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 3
B Calibration in real life ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 3
J Calibration cycle for monitoring & measuring tools used in medical device manufacturing General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 5
A Is calibration of test weight required General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 4
S Calibration Frequency for Slip Gauge Kit used for CMM Calibration? General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 0
S Calibration/Verification of customer fixtures IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 6
Ron Rompen Calibration by manufacturer ISO 17025 related Discussions 4
Q Calibration verification records 7.1.5.2.1 IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 2
B AS9100D 7.1.5.2 Calibration or Verification Method using outside cal lab AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 1
W Next Calibration Due Date Calibration Frequency (Interval) 5
S Where do l get calibration standards to run a calibration lab? Other ISO and International Standards and European Regulations 2
A OEM On-Site Calibration issues during Covid19 ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 12
D Calibration tolerance question using Pipettes Medical Device and FDA Regulations and Standards News 1
M Calibration Certificate Result issued by an accredited external laboratory General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 9
G Calibration of "Master Parts" Used as Gauges Calibration Frequency (Interval) 5
R Calibration lab environmental monitoring General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 4
G Calibration of Rotronic probe but not digital readout? General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 3
F Standard Calibration Procedures: Recommended Practice ISO 17025 related Discussions 0
T Temperature Requirements For In House Calibration - AS9100 AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 16
B Gage calibration frequency, ISO and IATF - What are the requirements Calibration Frequency (Interval) 3
Crimpshrine13 Laboratory Scope - Calibration vs. Test Methods - IATF 16949 IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 3
Crimpshrine13 Calibration of pH Meter Probe Calibration and Metrology Software and Hardware 3
F ESD workbench "calibration" Manufacturing and Related Processes 2
C Correct Calibration Method for Dial Depth Gage General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 6
F Nist traceable calibration certificates General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 1
G Tool tracebility and First calibration requirements for aerospace (AS9100) organisation AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 5
D Calibration of Digital thermometer with surface probe General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 1
T Calibration or Verification -> Cm and Cmk, etc. Definitions, Acronyms, Abbreviations and Interpretations Listed Alphabetically 3
G Is repeatability required for equipment calibration? General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 10
was named killer AS 9100D - Calibration Instructions - Controlled documents? AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 6
B Photovoltaic Tester Calibration General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 0
B Temperature loop: partial calibration General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 10
G Glass scale calibration at 74 degrees F? General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 4
A Digital Timer Calibration Requirements General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 3
Ron Rompen Barcode Verifier Calibration and Use Calibration and Metrology Software and Hardware 5
S Is Optical Parallel Set required calibration? ISO 17025 related Discussions 1
A Calibration of Power Supplies AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 2
D Calibration Process Flow Map Example Wanted General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 3
M Calibration or Verification? What terminology to use ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 1
N Calibration Requirements for Production Equipment ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 3
S Calibration Equipment Selection General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 2
D Sample Calibration SOP for ISO 13485 General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 4
L Calibration of Plug Gauges - Tolerancing General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 1
L In house calibration - Our CMM's are outside certified can I use them to certify our standards General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 4
R Standard Filter for Calibration Colorimeter ISO 17025 related Discussions 1
J Documenting a Calibration Interval Extension Calibration Frequency (Interval) 7
F Calibration certificate content - Average Value and True Value ISO 17025 related Discussions 6

Similar threads

Top Bottom