Calibration of 200 sets of Thread Ring Gages - Return them to the manufacturer?

Elsmar Forum Sponsor
L

lee01

#12
Regarding the decision to return your gauges back to the manufacturer for calibration of do it yourself. It all depends on what equipment you have now and what skills you have available. If you have the equipment and skill set in your team, then I sure you can calibrate the critical gauges in house (provided you have the time). If not you are looking at purchasing a suitable calibration equipment, delivery times, training . . . .

I had a QC department that held 2500 (sets) of both plug and ring gauges and decided that sending them out for calibration was the simplest option, I could have done it in-house but I thought with the amount we had, we could meet ourselves coming back, if you know what I mean. Also, I would never send it back to the manufacturer they are always more expensive then calibration houses.

This yearly calibration thing that people keep mentioning, gets my back up does that, you calibrate as and when required and not to any scheduled timeframes. I had a new production manager that once came down and asked why some of the gauges were calibrated every 7 years, and insisted I changed it because we would pass ISO audits. I passed him the ISO manual and asked him to highlight for where it stated I had to calibrate my gauges at set timeframes, obviously he couldn’t.

Another thing, all it states is to ensure the method of measuring is suitable for the job at hand. To me that means initial gauge studies (via the MSA principle) and conduct health checks should it need it.

Regards

Lee01
 

Wes Bucey

Quite Involved in Discussions
#13
We do not return thread gauges to the manufacturer. We have master thread plug gauges to check calibrated thread ring gauges & vice versa. All the gauges are spread over a year , hence we do not have issue of faster checking. It has not created any issue during ISO audit.
This raises a question of what folks mean by "calibrate"

To me, calibrate means to make a notation how far off an instrument or gage reads versus the master standard against which it is compared. With that notation, the readings with that gage against workpieces are similarly adjusted.

In my practice, if a gage had a variance with a master, it was taken out of service and sent to the professional service. We did NOT BREAK the seal on the adjustment screw of a ring gage to "make it fit" the master.

What do the rest of you understand by the term "CALIBRATE?"
 
D

D.Scott

#14
I agree with your understanding. We do pretty much the same thing.

I would like to point out though that outside the "Lab Arena" the terms calibration and verification are used pretty much interchangeably. When we "calibrate" a gage against a master, in many cases we are really verifying the accuracy of the gage. Like Wes, if the "calibration" couldn't be verified, we would take it out of service and send it to a cal lab.

We would never break the seal and make an adjustment on a ring gage either.

Dave
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#15
What do the rest of you understand by the term "CALIBRATE?"
We've done this many times. Calibratrion is comparison to an accepted standard. How "accepted" is defined depends on the requirements. Calibration does not necessarily imply adjustment. Some things don't need to be adjusted after calibration.
 
S

sanjayARYAN

#16
When i was working with previous company,we use to send these thread ring gauges to external calibration lab which is certified under ISO/IEC 17025.But preciously this is not calibration,this is verification.
 

Wes Bucey

Quite Involved in Discussions
#17
I agree "calibration" does not mean adjustment. "Adjustment" on a ring gage is a different animal from adjustment on an instrument to get zero and intermediate readings as on a vernier or micrometer when checking them with gage blocks. In Dave's view, with which I agree, we only verified the rings and plugs matched their masters.

Semi-:topic:
off topic
In my memory, we only had two causes of rings being taken out of service, other than normal wear:
  1. Any dropping (reverifed with master before using again [absolutely no "baggage" for dropping one - stuff happens] bad results occur when operators feel they have to hide an accident.)
  2. "Galling" when used on relatively soft workpiece material like aluminum, copper, or brass.
Those two "events" don't happen on schedule to set a predictive time for calibration, refurbishment, or destruction. Hence the verification before each shift.
 
P

potdar

#18
What do the rest of you understand by the term "CALIBRATE?"
ISO 9001, clause 7.6 clearly and consistently talks of calibrated or verified mmds. So they are obviously different activities. Verification has been defined by ISO 9000. That once again brings us back to the question put by Wes.

Calibration of an mmd is documenting the error in measurement by comparing it with standards traceable to the national ... with a known margin of uncertainty... ISO 10012 talks of it in much more detail. Unfortunately I dont have the latest copy (2003?) at hand. Maybe someone can quote from there.

Having known the extent of error in the mmd, whether the error is acceptable is a totally separate decision based on the requirements of the process for which it is used.

Repair is a totally separate story from calibration or verification. The device has to be recalibrated / reverified post repair.
 
P

potdar

#19
Some practical examples / suggestions:

1. Different error level being acceptbale: A foundry and an attached machine shop. Vernier callipers considered unacceptable for use in the machine shop because of high error in measurement are passed on to the foundry for use without any adjustment or repair. They are perfectly acceptable for routine use here and are considered "calibrated" for the job on hand.

2. Gauges: Coming to the original problem relating the gauges, one practice followed by my clients (also by lee01) in such situations is to control the frequency of calibration based on use / wear pattern. Gauges in frequent use should be calibrated frequently. Those that are rarely used need not be calibrated at the same frequency.

And why calibrate the NO GO gauges at the same frequency as the GO gauges? They rarely wear out if at all. Such gauges need "maintenance" more than calibration. If at all, simple verification will do for them once in a while.

That reduces your workload (and costs) by half!

Think over it.
 

Hershal

Metrologist-Auditor
Staff member
Super Moderator
#20
Calibration under internationally accepted definition means a comparison to higher level standards that are traceable through National or international standards to SI, with the traceability chain documented and uncertainty calculated at each step.

A perfect calibration does not require any adjustment.....in point of fact, most labs consider adjustment to be a repair, not part of calibration, unless the adjustment is incidental.

As for the original question in the thread, if the gages are compared internally, to actually consider that a clibration, the masters must be calibrated and the internal calibration records MUST meet the following requirements:
1. Document the certificate number of the last calibration of the masters (that is the link to the trceability chain)
2. Document the environmental conditions
3. Document the measurement uncertainty for the caliration of the gage that the record is for.
4. Then other requirements as appropriate.

Miss any of those requirements, in particular the traceability and uncertainty, and you have verification only, NOT calibration.

Again, send your gages to professionals.....and make sure the calibration provider knows what you need!

Hope this helps.

Hershal
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
C Calibration of Torque Wrenches and Screwdrivers using Torque mate 200 General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 4
lanley liao Question regarding the calibration of monitoring and measure equipment. Oil and Gas Industry Standards and Regulations 0
N IATF Calibration Lean in Manufacturing and Service Industries 3
Q Do these certificates of calibration meet ISO 9001 requirements for traceability to NIST? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 10
T Plug Gage Calibration Calibration and Metrology Software and Hardware 1
M Load Cell Calibration using a totalizer on a flow meter General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 0
E Calibration Records needed ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 1
D Limited Range Calibration - 5000 lb Industrial floor scale General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 3
D Calibration of Small Scales General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 26
C How to Establish the Calibration & Measurement Capability (CMC)? ISO 17025 related Discussions 1
I IQOQ or just initial calibration required? General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 3
B Calibration in real life ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 3
J Calibration cycle for monitoring & measuring tools used in medical device manufacturing General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 5
A Is calibration of test weight required General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 4
S Calibration Frequency for Slip Gauge Kit used for CMM Calibration? General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 0
S Calibration/Verification of customer fixtures IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 6
Ron Rompen Calibration by manufacturer ISO 17025 related Discussions 4
Q Calibration verification records 7.1.5.2.1 IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 2
B AS9100D 7.1.5.2 Calibration or Verification Method using outside cal lab AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 1
W Next Calibration Due Date Calibration Frequency (Interval) 5
S Where do l get calibration standards to run a calibration lab? Other ISO and International Standards and European Regulations 2
A OEM On-Site Calibration issues during Covid19 ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 12
D Calibration tolerance question using Pipettes Medical Device and FDA Regulations and Standards News 1
M Calibration Certificate Result issued by an accredited external laboratory General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 9
G Calibration of "Master Parts" Used as Gauges Calibration Frequency (Interval) 5
R Calibration lab environmental monitoring General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 4
G Calibration of Rotronic probe but not digital readout? General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 3
F Standard Calibration Procedures: Recommended Practice ISO 17025 related Discussions 0
T Temperature Requirements For In House Calibration - AS9100 AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 16
B Gage calibration frequency, ISO and IATF - What are the requirements Calibration Frequency (Interval) 3
Crimpshrine13 Laboratory Scope - Calibration vs. Test Methods - IATF 16949 IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 3
Crimpshrine13 Calibration of pH Meter Probe Calibration and Metrology Software and Hardware 3
F ESD workbench "calibration" Manufacturing and Related Processes 2
C Correct Calibration Method for Dial Depth Gage General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 6
F Nist traceable calibration certificates General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 1
G Tool tracebility and First calibration requirements for aerospace (AS9100) organisation AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 5
D Calibration of Digital thermometer with surface probe General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 1
T Calibration or Verification -> Cm and Cmk, etc. Definitions, Acronyms, Abbreviations and Interpretations Listed Alphabetically 3
G Is repeatability required for equipment calibration? General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 10
was named killer AS 9100D - Calibration Instructions - Controlled documents? AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 6
B Photovoltaic Tester Calibration General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 0
B Temperature loop: partial calibration General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 10
G Glass scale calibration at 74 degrees F? General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 4
A Digital Timer Calibration Requirements General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 3
Ron Rompen Barcode Verifier Calibration and Use Calibration and Metrology Software and Hardware 5
S Is Optical Parallel Set required calibration? ISO 17025 related Discussions 1
A Calibration of Power Supplies AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 2
D Calibration Process Flow Map Example Wanted General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 3
M Calibration or Verification? What terminology to use ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 1
N Calibration Requirements for Production Equipment ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 3

Similar threads

Top Bottom