Calibration of employee owned measurement equipment and gages

BradM

Staff member
Admin
#11
Some great posts on this. Also, be sure and review some of the prior posts.

Basically, you need to choose which program you can manage the best, will generate less headaches for you, and create less problems for your quality program.
 
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W

wweng7

#12
Good question above. What standard is this applies to? Won't fly with AS9100C because "7.6 Control of monitoring and measuring devices" calls for maintaining a full calibration register of all inspection tools including personally owned tools.
 
D

Dimitri

#13
My :2cents: on this topic,

Personally I'd rather use my own tools because I know how they work, I know they wern't abused by someone and wont be given the excuse "It was working last time I used it" when I pick the tool up and see its off. :rolleyes:

Tools should be calibrated by the person using them especially micrometers and smiliar tools, everyone uses a micrometer differently, on my Starrett Series 436 1-2" micrometer with a solid thimble I use it to measure and I get the right number using a standard or gage blocks, BUT I've got people I've let them use it complain it measures smaller by a couple of thou, and others who think its right on, so what happens to your calibration system when the tools are comming back from calibration measuring and they are all off because of the "human factor" ?? :confused:

Also as for calibrating/checking them before use in my opinion from personal experiance and from observation of more experianced Toolmakers (Tool and Die makers, Mold makers, Machinists etc) is that tools need to be checked before use quickly with a standard (if needed like micrometers over 0-1" for example) and be self checked throughlly once a month or every couple of months to make sure they are running right without being required to do it in a organized mannor like alot of Quality systems require because the more experianced Toolmakers I know take pride in their work and want it to be right so they do it if its required or not. :)

A calibration system shouldn't be needed for the measuring tools on the shop floor because they should be checked by the user anyways at the start of use to make sure its right and not have a sticker on them assuming its right for its "calibration period", only for Quality checking tools should calibration be needed. Only thing I think that if a company felt they needed to make sure the Toolmakers tools are working right is to provide a calibrated gage block set to them to check their own tools and to calibrate specific standards like micrometer standards for the Toolmaker. :)

Thoughts ?? :confused:

Dimitri
 

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Staff member
Admin
#14
Won't fly with AS9100C because "7.6 Control of monitoring and measuring devices" calls for maintaining a full calibration register of all inspection tools including personally owned tools.
Not really. The note ("non-enforceable text?!") refers to employee owned tools IF they are used to determine product conformity.
 

Hershal

Metrologist-Auditor
Staff member
Super Moderator
#15
At my previous employer we required all employee tools to be calibrated.....the company paid for that and our accredited calibration provider accomplished the calibration, to assure that the calibration was done correctly and that traceability was maintained.....

The Machine Shop lead and I would check each item before cal and after cal for function, to make sure they worked both before the cal lab folks got the tools and after the cal.....the lead kept the tools locked up between the time the tools were collected (in particular for the night shift) and the time of calibration, and also from time of cal till the tools were returned to their owners.....

This approach takes a little extra work but is the right approach for calibrating employee equipment in my opinion.

Hershal
 
W

walking eagle - 2010

#16
During our latest registrar audit the auditor looked at a mic on the shop floor in its case, picked it up and read the calibration sticker. Put it back in its case and then wrote a CAN when he saw the micrometer adjusting wrench that was also in the case. He cited ISO 9001-2000 7.6 d and stated that if this wrench were used it would invalidate the calibration records. How do you deal with this? Do you gather all of the adusting wrenches for employee owned tooling?
 
J

John Nabors - 2009

#17
Walking Eagle-

In 20+ years of being an auditee and (later) auditor working with MIL standards, QS-9000 and ISO 9001, I have never heard of anyone being busted in an audit for having a mic wrench. In ISO 9001, clause 7.6d does say that measuring equipment shall be 'safeguarded from adjustments that would invalidate the measurement result' but IMHO that does not mean that a micrometer can't be in the same zip code as the adjustment spanner, just that the tool should be verified after any adjustment is done. 7.6b says that the tool should 'be adjusted or re-adjusted as necessary.' Maybe this is a wild and crazy interpretation, but I read that to mean that the tool should be adjusted or re-adjusted as necessary, and get this: they make spanners for that!!

Just verify the tool when you are done.

Regards -John
 

Brizilla

Quite Involved in Discussions
#18
My :2cents:
We sent all the more precision gages that employees owned home. We have 5-S'd our shop so that every work center or machine now has all the gages the need to check their parts. The only employee owned gages we allow are calipers. It seems when they own their own they get damaged less often. We provide calibration, repair and replacement for these but the initial purchace is up to the operator or setup person.
We train, train, train our employees to check their gages every shift. If it is off it goes into the quality lab for recalibration.
 

BradM

Staff member
Admin
#19
During our latest registrar audit the auditor looked at a mic on the shop floor in its case, picked it up and read the calibration sticker. Put it back in its case and then wrote a CAN when he saw the micrometer adjusting wrench that was also in the case. He cited ISO 9001-2000 7.6 d and stated that if this wrench were used it would invalidate the calibration records. How do you deal with this? Do you gather all of the adusting wrenches for employee owned tooling?
I think that reasonable actions should be taken to assure that no instrument is adjusted by an unauthorized individual. for most instruments, this may be a tamper resistant seal, some wax sealent, or others. If you had a tamper resistant verification of some type on the micrometers, then the wrench would not matter. However, if there is no method of detecting that a micrometer was adjusted, and there is an adjustment wrench sitting right there... How do you know for sure it was not improperly adjusted?

Not sure if you have the proper training among your users and the appropriate standards. Do your users performance calibration verifications prior to use? Maybe one approach is to buy some gauge blocks, train the responsible parties on calibration practices, and have them log their activity. Yes.. that approach can have potential problems also.

Hence the reason why I stated (for both queries) that the optimal answer will depend on your situation, the culture of your organization, the employees, the level of risk, etc.
 

BradM

Staff member
Admin
#20
We sent all the more precision gages that employees owned home. We have 5-S'd our shop so that every work center or machine now has all the gages the need to check their parts. The only employee owned gages we allow are calipers. It seems when they own their own they get damaged less often. We provide calibration, repair and replacement for these but the initial purchace is up to the operator or setup person.
We train, train, train our employees to check their gages every shift. If it is off it goes into the quality lab for recalibration.
Sorry to take another post, but I could not help myself:cool: . Brizilla's is but one of many, many good posts on this subject that stresses the uniqueness of finding ideal solutions. There is not one fit. It's about studying your situation, finding the best approach, and creating a win-win situation. Sorry for using a cliche', but it does seem so appropriate for Brizilla's situation. Creating win-win solutions will lend to the probability of longer-term success with the program.
 
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