Calibration of employee owned measurement equipment and gages

J

John Nabors - 2009

#21
However, if there is no method of detecting that a micrometer was adjusted, and there is an adjustment wrench sitting right there... How do you know for sure it was not improperly adjusted?
In my very humble opinion, to write a non-conformance based on the fact that a person has the capability of adjusting an instrument (with no indication that any inappropriate adjustment has taken place) to me smacks of an attitude of 'guilty until proven innocent'. I've been adjusting micrometers since Ulysses was a corporal and believe me, if you really, really want to do something stupid with a micrometer you don't need one of those little spanners to get it done. (My personal favorite was the guy who used channel lock pliers. The results were amazingly ugly.)

Without any conflicting evidence, I believe at some point you must assume a little bit of good faith on behalf of the auditee. If there isn't a modicum of good faith on the part of the people performing the processes you are auditing, the whole exercise is a waste of time anyway because if someone is he11 bent on circumventing the letter and spirit of the process, they will find a way to do so that won't get them caught.

Just my :2cents: .

Regards -John
 
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Sidney Vianna

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#22
In my very humble opinion, to write a non-conformance based on the fact that a person has the capability of adjusting an instrument (with no indication that any inappropriate adjustment has taken place) to me smacks of an attitude of 'guilty until proven innocent'.
John, you are so right.

Reminds me of this story:


Fairplay. A couple goes on vacation to a fishing resort in northern Minnesota. The husband likes to fish at the crack of dawn. The wife likes to read. One morning the husband returns after several hours of fishing and decides to take a short nap. Although she isn't familiar with the lake, the wife decides to take the boat. She motors out a short distance, anchors, and continues to read her book. Along comes the game warden in his boat. He pulls up alongside her and says,"Good morning, Ma'am, what are you doing?" "Reading my book," she replies, thinking isn't that obvious? "You're in a restricted fishing area," he informs her. "But officer, I'm not fishing. Can't you see that?" "Yes, but you have all the equipment. I'll have to take you in and write you up." "If you do that, I'll have to charge you with rape," says the woman. "But I haven't even touched you," says the game warden. "That's true, but you do have all the equipment."
 

BradM

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#23
Oh, who are you kidding, Sidney?? You would have written all of them up!!:lol:

***
Guys, I agree with you in principle. Sid, are you saying you would have not dug a little on this? You would be one of the few auditors that would not have.

I have beat over the head with "assurance of unauthorized tampering...". If there is a wrench sitting there, and a cute little hole they fit in, how do you know that the guy you're letting go in a week didn't adjust every wrench in the shop??? If you have no alternative verification process, then the process has a gap. Am I that far off-base of this?

I get back standards from cal labs with tamper resistant tags (KEY: where appropriate). I don't take it as a personal insult; they are doing their job.

With calibration area being like the #2 oft-cited area (let me know if my stat there is obsolete), I can't believe the registrar auditor did not see something that needed to be fixed.

My fellow experts, what say you?
 

BradM

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#24
....and believe me, if you really, really want to do something stupid with a micrometer you don't need one of those little spanners to get it done. (My personal favorite was the guy who used channel lock pliers. The results were amazingly ugly.)
John
Great post above, John. Well thought out. I too have seen the pliers thing.

How about the calipers in a vice-grip because they were warped??:bonk:

We better not let OSHA know. They'll make us put a warning tag on the micrometers?:lol:
 

Sidney Vianna

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#25
Sid, are you saying you would have not dug a little on this? You would be one of the few auditors that would not have.
Please, NEVER assume what I would have done. The point is: the simple fact that the adjusting wrench was available is no evidence of calibration tampering. It is THAT simple.

If one starts writing up NC's based on assumptions, the concept of OBJECTIVE EVIDENCE ceases to exist.
 

BradM

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#26
Please, NEVER assume what I would have done. The point is: the simple fact that the adjusting wrench was available is no evidence of calibration tampering. It is THAT simple.

If one starts writing up NC's based on assumptions, the concept of OBJECTIVE EVIDENCE ceases to exist.
Agreed, on the basis of not making assumptions, and utilizing objective evidence. Also, agreed to never assume what any auditor has/has not done or will/will not do. :yes:
 
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T

tyker

#27
I realize this is seriously :topic: but the discussion reminded me of an incident in my auditing days.

The company was a small fabrication/machine shop which made low volume bespoke components and had a central inspection area with all the inspection equipment. As part of his preparation for the audit, the Chief Inspector checked all the external micrometers and didn't like the rough action of some. He bought a complete new set of mics, had them calibrated and threw the old ones in the skip.
On the day before my visit, he checked the area again and found someone had retrieved the old micrometers and placed them in the drawer alongside the new set. He took the old ones out again, put them on the bandsaw and threw the remains in the skip.
During my audit, I picked up a micrometer from the drawer and found myself holding just the barrel, the anvil stayed in the tray.
There may have been a nonconformity somewhere but its hard to write when you're laughing.
 
W

walking eagle - 2010

#28
I agree with the point that there was no objective evidence of unauthorized tampering. I also disagree with the CAN being written in the first place when you take into account the the instrument was not being used to verify results at the time, and was located in the employees personal tool box.
 

Sidney Vianna

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#29
I agree with the point that there was no objective evidence of unauthorized tampering. I also disagree with the CAN being written in the first place when you take into account the the instrument was not being used to verify results at the time, and was located in the employees personal tool box.
How do you deal with this?
You deal with this by appealing the write up to the Registrar. Without EVIDENCE, the auditor is unjustified in writing you up.
You should not have to implement a corrective action based on the description of the situation.
 

BradM

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#30
All, with all due respect, I cannot follow the logic on this. I may be wrong on this one, and that's fine. But for now, I'm sticking with my guns.

Attached is a checklist I downloaded from the Internet. Plainly stated:

Safeguarded from adjustments that would invalidate the measurement results.
If this is an open system:

This organization has established training, standards, practices that the operators can verify their own instruments. If this is the case, I would not cite a problem

If this is a closed system:

If these instruments are calibrated by an independent lab, internal calibration lab, etc. and the instrument is to be controlled, then:

a. If there is a ready adjustment mechanism and no system for verifying adjustment (tamper seals, wax, rings, etc.), then I would cite a problem.

b. If there is a ready adjustment mechanism and a system for verifying adjustment (tamper seals, wax, rings, etc.), then I would not cite a problem.

I have been around too long to know, that if you have a screw, knob, adjustment of any kind that can be made, and means to do it; it will be adjusted. Humans are just too curious of creatures. If there are no guards against unauthorized adjustments, I feel the auditor's observation has merit.

However, I am merely speculating, as I have not seen the write-up, do not know if there is additional information the auditor observed, or any additional information which may weigh on this situation.

This is not an accusation effort; stating that because there is a wrench, someone adjusted. This is a process thing, stating that there is insufficient control over unauthorized adjustments.

Thank you for your patience. I generally don't hang on to a bone very long, but I just can't shake this one yet.:)
 

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