Calibration Service Suppliers refuse NIST reference numbers on C of C

Jen Kirley

Quality and Auditing Expert
Staff member
Admin
#11
I agree ISO/IEC 17025 does not require a calibration lab to supply the serial numbers of standards used for the calibrations their customers have paid for. The requirement for this kind of traceability is listed within ISO 9001, TS 16949 and perhaps other industry standards.

In these standards the language does not specifically say "calibration labs shall supply serial numbers on calibration certificates for the equipment they calibrate/verify" because the responsibility is placed on the client company to ensure that traceability is available. Historically their best tool for the job is to have the number on the certificate, but if there is something else such as a database they can rely on they could exhibit that as evidence they have the traceability the standards ask for. However it's done, there's an expectation that traceability can be established so as to lend confidence to the measurement process. Boom, that's it.
 
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A

aavtqa

#12
Hi Jennifer,
AS9100. ISO9001 and AS9100 7.6 b "be calibrated or verified, or both, at specified intervals, or prior to use, against measurement standards traceable to international or national measurement standards;.............."
 

Hershal

Metrologist-Auditor
Staff member
Super Moderator
#13
My employer is currently doing business with a Calibration Service Supplier who refuses to include an NIST reference number on the C of Cs they provide.
The supplier states that their "Accreditation to ISO/IEC 17025:2005" makes the NIST reference number unnecessary and adds "excess" cost to their process. They go on to state that no longer providing NIST reference numbers on C of Cs is the trend with Labs who are accreditated to ISO/IEC 17025:2005 and AL2A.

My registrar still expects an NIST number. May I have your comments?
Two thoughts.

First, the typical "NIST Number" is generally not valid for traceability, according to NIST's own policy on traceability. However, if the NIST Number can be shown to apply to the specific calibration of the specific instrument that was used as the reference standard used to calibrate your equipment, then the number is valid. Absent that evidence, the number is not valid for traceability.

Second, the calibration provider may be accredited to ISO/IEC 17025:2005, but is not accredited to A2LA. A2LA is an organization, not a standard. They phrased it incorrectly, although that mistake is not unusual at all.

Hope this helps.
 

Hershal

Metrologist-Auditor
Staff member
Super Moderator
#14
The NIST Language:

I.B.4 Is a NIST Test Report Number necessary and/or sufficient evidence of traceability?

Test report numbers issued by NIST are intended to be used solely for administrative purposes. Although they are often used to uniquely identify documents which bear evidence of traceability, test report numbers themselves do not address the issues listed in I.B.1 above, and should not be used nor required as the sole proof of traceability.

The link:

http://www.nist.gov/traceability/suppl_matls_for_nist_policy_rev.cfm#
 

Jen Kirley

Quality and Auditing Expert
Staff member
Admin
#15
And so just to clarify, the number I look for as traceability is the serial number of the standard used to calibrate. As an alternative, a test number could be provided that can be traced to a set of serial numbers while being themselves calibrated by an entity like the state department of weights and measures. I am not sure these are the numbers referred to as NIST test report numbers.
 

Hershal

Metrologist-Auditor
Staff member
Super Moderator
#16
Jennifer, good point.

The NIST Number is xxx/xxxxxx-xx, where the first three numbers are the department, the six numbers are a sequential job number, and the last two are the year of the test.

For me, I look at the certificate number or similar of the last calibration of the reference standard, along with the other applicable information to identify the instrument. State Weights and Measures will often use a certificate number also. The reason for the certificate number is that if there is a question, the cal provider can track and produce the information. At least, they should be able to.

One additional note about State Weights and Measures labs. Many are now NVLAP accredited which is good. Not all are, but the ones that are not still are considered valid, as they come in under legal metrology, as defined through OIML. They still have to have traceability back to SI through National standards.

Hope this helps.
 
A

aavtqa

#17
Here is an update to my questions about the use/requirement by AS9100 Auditors for NIST Job Numbers on Calibration suppliers C of Cs.



My second question to IAQG Feedback.

AS9100 Rev C 7.6 a States:

"a) be calibrated or verified, or both, at specified intervals, or prior to use, against measurement standards traceable to international or national measurement standards; where no such standards exist, the basis used for calibration or verification shall be recorded (see 4.2.4);"


Clarification request: does the text "standards traceable to international or national measurement standards" require the presence of NIST Job Number on all Calibration C of Cs received from Calibration suppliers?



The response from IAQG 4/9/14

"It is my understanding that this issue has been introduced into the Certification Body's dispute resolution process for clarity. Do you have any follow-up questions? If not, please close this OASIS feedback item. "


I believe this means the issue will be aired at the appropriate level for clarification.

aavtqa



 

Hershal

Metrologist-Auditor
Staff member
Super Moderator
#18
My employer is currently doing business with a Calibration Service Supplier who refuses to include an NIST reference number on the C of Cs they provide.
The supplier states that their "Accreditation to ISO/IEC 17025:2005" makes the NIST reference number unnecessary and adds "excess" cost to their process. They go on to state that no longer providing NIST reference numbers on C of Cs is the trend with Labs who are accreditated to ISO/IEC 17025:2005 and AL2A.

My registrar still expects an NIST number. May I have your comments?
Educate the Registrar on the NIST Policy on Traceability and also the NCSLI position. The NIST Number is a work order number according to both of those documents. By itself it is NOT VALID for traceability. If it is for a specific calibration at a specific time of your calibration providers standards, then it is valid for traceability, and ONLY then.

Also, they cannot be accredited to A2LA, as A2LA is an accrediting body. They would be accredited to ISO/IEC 17025:2005 by A2LA.

Hope this helps.
 

Hershal

Metrologist-Auditor
Staff member
Super Moderator
#19
Actually, the position given by the Calibration provider has merit. Refer to this posting by A2LA

Instead of focusing on the NIST test numbers, verifying the actual traceability chain is far more important. I would present this information to your registrar and see if they are willing to engage A2LA on it.
[/INDENT]
Quite so. In truth, A2LA is involved, as during an assessment an accrediting body is required to verify the traceability, and document same.
 

Hershal

Metrologist-Auditor
Staff member
Super Moderator
#20
I like A2LA's guidance pages. :agree1:

But I want to take care not to muddle these two factors because the original question seemed to be about refusing to provide any traceability at all. For the record, the test reports I have seen referenced were to the states' Departments of Weights and Measures. As with calibration labs, they indicated which individual standards did not pass. These test methods were listed in the place where standard(s) used for calibration would be listed.
A State Weights and Measures lab will typically come in under one or both of the following:

Accreditation to ISO/IEC 17025:2005, typically by NVLAP, or

Legal Metrology, under OIML.

Both are valid.
 
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