Calibration Stickers on Measurement Equipment - Compulsory or not

B

Bob the QE

#11
I guess this is one of those things that goes to the auditor's determination. I know from two experiences that the burden was not on the auditor it was on the operator to be able to determine the calibration status at the time of use. I have been called on this twice and in both case the auditors (different auditor and registrar's) cited the same thing almost to a word. So I guess my experience has taught me different but I respect the different view.Though I didn't try it I doubt saying something to the affect that well they gave it to me so it must be in calibration would have worked, maybe it would have. I might try that if it happens again.
 
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Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#12
I guess this is one of those things that goes to the auditor's determination. I know from two experiences that the burden was not on the auditor it was on the operator to be able to determine the calibration status at the time of use. I have been called on this twice and in both case the auditors (different auditor and registrar's) cited the same thing almost to a word. So I guess my experience has taught me different but I respect the different view.Though I didn't try it I doubt saying something to the affect that well they gave it to me so it must be in calibration would have worked, maybe it would have. I might try that if it happens again.
I would never change an efficacious system in order to appease a CB auditor. The standard says (7.6c) that "Where necessary to ensure valid results, measuring equipment shall...be identified to enable the calibration status to be determined."

If I give devices unique identifiers that are traceable to calibration records, and my recall system can be demonstrated to be capable of insuring that calibrations are done according to the documented schedule, the requirement has been met.
 
#13
I've never quite understood any auditor asking an operator if they know about the calibration of equipment - including status! IT's NOT THEIR JOB TO KNOW!!

They will use whatever they're given to do the job. It's no different to asking about PM on the machine they run, or the angles on the cutting tools! I've never heard of any op. being asked about the 'PM status", so why do auditors insist on asking about calibration?

Simply, the operator might have dropped a gauge only moments before and could then point to a sticker and say 'Oh, yes! It's calibrated alright'.....

Same for document control, the user of the document isn't the one to ask.....

It's another example of ineffectual (or plain lazy) auditing! The audit process should be to gather details of the actual equipment being used, range, i.d., location, use, etc. and trace it back to the calibration system through records etc.
 

bobdoering

Stop X-bar/R Madness!!
Trusted Information Resource
#14
I would disagree that a master list itself would meet the requirement unless there is a master list at every location where the equipment is being used or you utilize a tool crib type process where equipment is issued to a location, job or project in accordance with the list. My reasoning is this; the standard requires "be identified to enable the calibration status to be determined." So if a piece of equipment is being used and the auditor wants to know what is the calibration status of that piece of equipment and it can not be determined by the operator then the status is not known.
Although it may be handy to pick up a device an see that it is within its calibration period, the identification on the device - which can be serial number, inscribed number, etc. - that tracks it to the calibration record where the status lives meets the standard. Most auditors I have dealt with write down the device identification, go to the calibration records and see if the device falls within the calibration period - even if there is a sticker.
 

bobdoering

Stop X-bar/R Madness!!
Trusted Information Resource
#15
Simply, the operator might have dropped a gauge only moments before and could then point to a sticker and say 'Oh, yes! It's calibrated alright'.....
Good point! The calibration status only identifies if the gage is within its calibration period. It does not - and can not - detect if a gage is in calibration! Some folks forget that very important point!

I mean, if it were only that easy that a sticker itself would keep a gage in calibration!!:tg:
 

bobdoering

Stop X-bar/R Madness!!
Trusted Information Resource
#16
I know from two experiences that the burden was not on the auditor it was on the operator to be able to determine the calibration status at the time of use. I have been called on this twice and in both case the auditors (different auditor and registrar's) cited the same thing almost to a word.
I have had stickerless systems supported by may QS/TS/customer audits. The only time it comes into question is if the system is ineffective at either finding the gages or keeping up with the calibrations.
 
K

kampung boy

#17
Good point! The calibration status only identifies if the gage is within its calibration period. It does not - and can not - detect if a gage is in calibration! Some folks forget that very important point!

I mean, if it were only that easy that a sticker itself would keep a gage in calibration!!:tg:
Yes Bob...i agreed with your statement :agree1: but auditor only see what on the tool ....especially the sticker and not check whether still in tolerance.
as for recall system what my company doing is using the auto alert using the outlook . Any other suggestion coz even with sticker and system in hand, still facing tool not calibrated on time :(
 

BradM

Staff member
Admin
#18
Yes Bob...i agreed with your statement :agree1: but auditor only see what on the tool ....especially the sticker and not check whether still in tolerance.
as for recall system what my company doing is using the auto alert using the outlook . Any other suggestion coz even with sticker and system in hand, still facing tool not calibrated on time :(
Well... reading over the posts here there seems to be a series of situations going on. Is it compulsory to have stickers? No, unless you said it's compulsory. Is it a good practice? In many situations, yes. Does it prevent past due calibrations? no.

The last part of your quoted post suggests late calibrations. That's another matter, which involves having a recall system, and having employees trained and understanding the ramifications of having past due instruments. Training, training, training, with the employees to be concerned about the calibration status, and bringing instruments to the responsible calibration person when they are due, instead of the calibration person having to go beat the bushes and round up equipment that is due.

Also, assure you have adequate backup of instruments that are due for calibration.:)
 
K

kampung boy

#19
Well... reading over the posts here there seems to be a series of situations going on. Is it compulsory to have stickers? No, unless you said it's compulsory. Is it a good practice? In many situations, yes. Does it prevent past due calibrations? no.

The last part of your quoted post suggests late calibrations. That's another matter, which involves having a recall system, and having employees trained and understanding the ramifications of having past due instruments. Training, training, training, with the employees to be concerned about the calibration status, and bringing instruments to the responsible calibration person when they are due, instead of the calibration person having to go beat the bushes and round up equipment that is due.

Also, assure you have adequate backup of instruments that are due for calibration.:)
:thanx::thanx: Appreciate all your responses. At least i know what to do know :agree:
 
A

amanbhai

#20
Good point! The calibration status only identifies if the gage is within its calibration period. It does not - and can not - detect if a gage is in calibration! Some folks forget that very important point!

I mean, if it were only that easy that a sticker itself would keep a gage in calibration!!:tg:
I know that calibration sticker means that the particular equipment is calibrated (date of calibration) & the next due. But why do we have the nextcalibration due dates when we can't guarentee anything about its status between these intervels?:confused:
 
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