Can a Camera be used by the Auditor ?

#41
In my experience A Camera is a good tool in an INTERNAL AUDIT; I have used the Camera effectively to improve many conditions in our manufacturing units.

I have also used the Camera as an external auditor in EICC audits; the sole purpose is to help the auditee (usually a small and medium scale unit) to understand the issue and carry out corrective/preventive actions. It has helped the auditee to meet the requirements of the customer (client).

I have used the CAMERA in Environmental Audits, Safety Audits and due Diligence audits; photo evidence is a record that helps to improve the situation in these cases.

I am not sure if a CAMERA is a good tool in a Management System audit. I have not used a camera in a management system audit so far.

With regards,

Ramakrishnan
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor
#42
Hi

One issue that Auditees/Clients should bear in mind is that the Photos taken can be shared with others who have interest in your technology or machines etc. Hence it is in your interest to check the credentials of the auditor before allowing anyone to take pictures. I know of cases when competitors (or their agents) visited manufacturing units in the garb of Management Systems auditors and taken information which otherwise would not be available to them. I don't say that it happens often; but it happens and one does not want to be one of those visited by competitors (or their agents) in the garb of auditors. In this context, one has to be careful about allowing photography during audits.

Kind regards,

Ramakrishnan
 

Paul Simpson

Trusted Information Resource
#43
Many of us were taught auditing techniques when digital media was not easily acquired. We must (in my opinion) be open to use technology in order to enhance and improve the auditing profession and audit effectiveness, as well.
In principle I agree. I realize I am coming over as all 'stone age' on this thread but, as I mentioned, I have seen this misused with a lead auditor metaphorically rubbing a top management team's noses in an environmental spill using digital pictures. Even though I was on the 'nose rubbing' side I was embarrassed, I can only guess how the company felt. Particularly as there were already significant cultural issues as the audit was in China! My point is that use of digital media doesn't improve the profession. Only professional auditing will do that.

If auditing is perceived as a adversarial/confrontational activity, auditees will be concerned with anything the auditors see, read, listen to, etc.; even the handwritten notes are concerning, just like a thorough audit report is. To mitigate that, confidentiality clauses are in place
Perhaps this is at the nub of the problem. As we have seen in a lot of places on the Cove 3rd party assessment is seen as adversarial - you only have to look at the raging arguments about 'value adding' to see that. I personally don't trust an auditor to keep information confidential (based on the experience above and a few others). In some ways reports etc. don't seem as harsh and are immediately traceable to the reporter where a picture is more anonymous. There are many 3rd party auditors that I would trust with this and more sensitive information but there is a 'long tail' of this profession and to give them further access to material they can misuse is not an option for me.

But (and I've seen it myself), during a closing meeting, debriefing audit results to top management with images of the concerning areas, brings an impact and engagement, impossible to accomplish with words alone.
I agree there can be value and here I am going to turn the trust thing from above on its head. If an auditor tells me in a closing meeting they have seen a spill or unsafe practices I will believe them. Particularly if it has been seen by a guide from my company (;)). I don't need a picture.

But I do understand there may be instances where it can help but I would much prefer it if the top management went to the scene and saw it for themselves. 'Genchi Genbutsu' comes to mind.

I don't see why auditing should be refractory to technology.
OK. I am a self confessed Luddite. :notme:
 
A

amanbhai

#44
I recently conducted a quality management system audit on behalf of a client sitting abroad. Apart from conducting the audit, the other special requirement was to take as many pictures as possible and attach them with report (offcourse agreed between both parties). However, this audit was not a certification audit.
Thanks
 

Randy

Super Moderator
#45
Can a camera be used by an auditor? Lot's of posts and monkey-chasing-the-weasel in the Thread....Bottom line..........

The ability of an auditor using a camera is strictly left up to:

1) The policies and procedures of the organization employing the auditor

2) The policies and procedures of the organization being audited

3) The agreement or lack thereof between the 2 organizations


That's it, nothing else matters.
 
L

lynchoid - 2012

#47
I agree that cameras should not be necessary in an audit. FDA and other regulatory agencies may use them, and cannot be disallowed. (sigh) But I would not allow an ISO auditor to use one.
 
M

Mengblom - 2010

#48
Should a camera be used by the auditor? Generally, no. For quality or internal audits auditors could use photocopiers if permitted by the client. Investigations of irregularities (theft or fraud), incident investigations and such, photographs may be appropriate with the consent of the client. Be mindful of camera use at industrial or process facilities where infrared detectors and other sensors are used that may trigger alarms from flash.
 
#49
I would feal uneasy with the auditor taking pictures. However, I strongly encourage the audit escort to bring a camera. I have a client who requires internal auditor to check out the camera during internal audits, and also when escorting a 2nd or 3rd party auditor. They won't take pictures of every little thing, but it is a good way of showing what was observed where. For example, there is a skid of parts in the wrong location, or a drums of cutting fluid stacked inappropriately.

I like the use of cameras in corrective actions, and I like them in auditing. But I do think it is important for the company to be in control of the camera.
 
J

joelietz

#50
We have some regulations about cameras, but, OSHA and EPA do come in camera ready, and there really isn't anything you can do if they want to take pictures. For the most part, it wouldn't bother "me" one bit, and the evidence would be right there. I'd be more afraid of what our own people would do when faced with the photo, I think it would turn into a massive blame game instead of an opportunity to strengthen our system.

I don't think pictures should be taken unless agreed to at the onset of the audit, and I think each one should be reviewed and approved by the auditee before blasted up on the wall in a closing meeting. All managers should be notified about the pictoral evidence prior to the close so that nobody is surprised and made to look stupid for lack of a better term.

I do think that pictures could prove useful for a company like mine where we have very little paper, printer access is not always handy, etc. I've got nothing to hide......and if I did, you wouldn't get it on film anyway.:notme:
This is very odd. We had a similar situation where an employee complained to the union about use of cameras at the work site and we were forced to comply with the resulting grievance. I would suspect that location/local laws are the key difference?
 
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