Can a Fabless Semiconductor Company achieve TS16949 Certification (Registration)?

[tapster]

Hello All,

I'm trying to find out if a fabless semiconductor company, one without any in-house manufacturing capability, (front end, back end and ATE capability), can acheive TS16949 certification?

I've managed to trace a few fabless companies that have TS16949 (parrot, SSSL & xilink) however they all have some form of manufacturing capability, usually production ATE.

Is anyone aware of, or has TS certified, a wholly fabless company?

Thanks,

Nathan

 

[Sidney Vianna]

Re: Can a Fabless Semiconductor Company acheive TS16949 Certification (Registration)?

Hello All,

I'm trying to find out if a fabless semiconductor company, one without any in-house manufacturing capability, (front end, back end and ATE capability), can acheive TS16949 certification?

I've managed to trace a few fabless companies that have TS16949 (parrot, SSSL & xilink) however they all have some form of manufacturing capability, usually production ATE.

Is anyone aware of, or has TS certified, a wholly fabless company?

Thanks,

Nathan

Nathan, I don't believe that a fabless organization is eligible for TS-16949 certification. By definition, only MANUFACTURING sites are certifiable to TS. An organization that assembles ATE's should not be certifiable to TS either because ATE's are not automotive products, such as production or replacement parts.
My 3 million lire or 4.7 billion yens.

 

[vanputten]

Re: Can a Fabless Semiconductor Company acheive TS16949 Certification (Registration)?

I am familiar with at least one fabless organization that is TS 16949 certified. Since TS allows for outsourcing of any process, they can be TS 16949 certified. Even though the manufacturing is outsourced, the organization is still responsible for the outsourced process.

This is a sticky point with TS that I have never understood. Outsourcing is allowed. The outsourced process is still the reponsibility of the organization. But if you outsources a Product Realization process, then you cannot get a TS certification? Doesn't make sense to me. The organziation is still responsible.

Regards,

Dirk

 

[vanputten]

Re: Can a Fabless Semiconductor Company acheive TS16949 Certification (Registration)?

By the way, when you say "production ATE", do you mean ttat the organizaiton in question does automatic testing of the semiconductors?

Do you consider electrical test of product "manufacturing?" The organzition that I am familair with only tests and ships semiconductors. All other processes are outsourced. They are TS certified.

Personally, I don't see testing as "manufacturing."

Regards,

Dirk

 

[cheahga]

Re: Can a Fabless Semiconductor Company acheive TS16949 Certification (Registration)?

Fully agreed with Dirk & Sidney that "Testing" is not manufacturing process which does not add value to the manufacturing process per TS definition.

Read the attachment on the last column on TS & semiconductor industries...

I still wonder how those fabless or testing house industries ever get certified with so called under scruntinization of IATF under the application scope ......

 

[jeffrey_Chang]

Re: Can a Fabless Semiconductor Company acheive TS16949 Certification (Registration)?

Fully agreed with Dirk & Sidney that "Testing" is not manufacturing process which does not add value to the manufacturing process per TS definition.

I do not concur to the fact that final test does not add value to the manufacturing process. As a matter of fact, I view it as part of the value stream. IC final test is about ensuring that the product are performing and complying to its design intent. Without such test, how can one be sure that the product is functioning as design.
As to obtaining TS certification for testing house as mentioned, sorry not sure about fabless, so long as you have customers from the automotive industry, you can be certified to TS.
thks.
jeffrey.

 

[Sidney Vianna]

Re: Can a Fabless Semiconductor Company acheive TS16949 Certification (Registration)?

so long as you have customers from the automotive industry, you can be certified to TS.

No sir. That is BAD advice.

Question: Which Organizations can obtain Certification/Registration to ISO/TS 16949:2002?

Answer: Any Organization in the Automotive Supply Chain meeting the criteria below can obtain Certification to ISO/TS 16949:2002
1. Scope 1.1 General
- This Technical Specification, in conjunction with ISO 9001:2000, defines the quality management system requirements for the design and development, production and, when relevant, installation and service of automotive-related products.
- This Technical Specification is applicable to sites of the organization where production and/or service parts specified by the customer are manufactured.
2. "Automotive" shall be understood as including the following:
- Cars, Trucks (Light, Medium and Heavy), Buses, Motorcycles
3. "Automotive" shall be understood to exclude the following:
- Industrial, Agricultural, Off-Highway (Mining, Forestry, Construction, etc.)
4. 3.1.11 "Site"
- Location at which value added manufacturing processes occur.
5. “Manufacturing”
- Process of making or fabricating:
· Production materials
· Production or service parts
· Assemblies, or
· Heat treating, welding, painting, plating, or other finishing services

 

[jeffrey_Chang]

Re: Can a Fabless Semiconductor Company acheive TS16949 Certification (Registration)?

Thks Sidney,
I do have a question "How do you define value added manufacturing processes?" Is 100% final testing a value added process?
What I'm trying to say here "if you have customers in the automotive industry, you can be certified to TS" is that if you have an automotive customer, you should be providing some form of "value added" services or manufacturing content to them, as such, you should be meeting the requirements as stipulated above.
Again, my question here is if I'm a testing house for a automotive customer, can I be certified? If not, then I think it is time I should fire the TS/ISO consultant.
thks.
jeffrey.

 

[tapster]

Re: Can a Fabless Semiconductor Company acheive TS16949 Certification (Registration)?

Thanks for the inputs.

In response to some earlier queries. Yes ATE is final electrical test and is the final inspection/verification point.

As I understand it the production test is an inspection gate.

Therefore an NVA process (much like in line QA inspections) as we are inspecting and rejecting product defects introduced by the manufactuiring process.

According to TS this cannot be adding value (even though it classes as a finishing service) therefore TS certification on the back of a test servide is not possible.

Am I missing something?

Thanks,

Nathan

 

[tapster]

Re: Can a Fabless Semiconductor Company acheive TS16949 Certification (Registration)?

Just had another thought (dangerous I know).

Are tape and reel, dry-packing and labeling classed as value added manufacturing (e.g. finishing operations)?

If so, then a test house can be certified.

Or as these processes are essentially packaging steps are they exempt from the manufacturing process as far as TS is concerned ?

Comments?

Thanks,

Nathan