Can a Fabless Semiconductor Company achieve TS16949 Certification (Registration)?

[tapster]

Hi Sidney,

Wow!

This puts a completely different complexion on things.

I'm due to present at the FSA (fabless semiconductor association) conference in a couple of weeks at a panel session dedicated to the question of automotive and TS16949.

If the IAOB have decied against TS certification for fabless it would be a significant development to say the least!!!

Can you shed any more light on this? Maybe contact me privately and/or share the communique?



Thanks,

Nathan

 

[Sidney Vianna]

Can you shed any more light on this? Maybe contact me privately and/or share the communique?

Unfortunately I can not share the email string that I received. Apparently up until recently, the IATF was inclined to allow fabless semiconductor organizations to apply for TS certification, since this business model is growing tremendously. However, based on what I was told, there was a reversal at a meeting last month.

Since you are directly involved with this issue, may I suggest you contact the IAOB and ask for clarification? It has been done in the past.

 

[tapster]

Hi,

OK. I'll try that and get back to you.

If you happen upon any other nuggest be sure to let me know. The conference is in 10 days.... :mg:

Thanks for you help,

Nathan

 

[vanputten]

We should get clarification from the IATF as to what processes can and cannot be outsourced. If the rumors are accurate, apparently product realization cannot be outsourced.

What else cannot be outsourced?

Thank you,

Dirk

 

[Sidney Vianna]

What else cannot be outsourced?

Management responsibility! Just kidding.

My understanding is that the IATF contends that TS certification is exclusive to "manufacturing" sites. Obviously, they can not prohibit other business models. But they want to limit the certification to production sites only.

 

[vanputten]

Hello Sideny:

I assume you understand my point about outsourcing.

What is a "manufacturing" site? Or a "production" site? Is an assembly location a "manufacturing" site? Thare are not "making" anything. They are only assembling peices "made" by someone else?

Why can we outsource other processes but not "product realization?"

I ask this especially since outsourcing does not absolve the organization from any responsibility.

How do we know what processes can or cannot be outsourced?

Thank you,

Dirk

 

[Sidney Vianna]

What is a "manufacturing" site? Or a "production" site? Is an assembly location a "manufacturing" site? Thare are not "making" anything. They are only assembling peices "made" by someone else?

Dirk, this is answered at this page of the IAOB website.

Question: Which Organizations can obtain Certification/Registration to ISO/TS 16949:2002?

Answer: Any Organization in the Automotive Supply Chain meeting the criteria below can obtain Certification to ISO/TS 16949:2002​

1. 1. Scope 1.1 General
      - This Technical Specification, in conjunction with ISO 9001:2000, defines the quality management system requirements for the design and development, production and, when relevant, installation and service of automotive-related products.
      - This Technical Specification is applicable to sites of the organization where production and/or service parts specified by the customer are manufactured.
   2. "Automotive" shall be understood as including the following:
      - Cars, Trucks (Light, Medium and Heavy), Buses, Motorcycles
   3. "Automotive" shall be understood to exclude the following:
      - Industrial, Agricultural, Off-Highway (Mining, Forestry, Construction, etc.)
   4. 3.1.11 "Site"
      - Location at which value added manufacturing processes occur.
   5. “Manufacturing”
      - Process of making or fabricating:
      • Production materials
      • Production or service parts
      • Assemblies, or
      • Heat treating, welding, painting, plating, or other finishing services

Why can we outsource other processes but not "product realization?"

Because if you outsource product realization processes, you are no longer a manufacturing site.​

How do we know what processes can or cannot be outsourced?

The IAOB/IATF should be the ones answering those questions, if you are looking for an "official" interpretation.

 

[harry]

................. The eligibility aspect for companies to be certified to TS-16949 has been enhanced, compared to the QS-9000 because there were stupid abuses, as the case of a Montessori-school somewhere in Asia, certified to QS-9000. There were other infamous cases of mis-application. Interesting, most of the accounts that I heard were in Asia.
...

I think I know the answer now. Somebody must have mistaken Q9001 with QS9000. Q9001 is a certification for education.

ANSI/ASQC Z1.11-1996
Quality Assurance Standards - Guidelines for the Application of ANSI/ISO/ASQC Q9001 or Q9002 to Education and Training Institutions
Proposed standard would provide guidelines for implementing quality assurance principles as they apply to the education and training fields.

It was one of the standards consulted by the IWA2 committee.

 

[Sidney Vianna]

I think I know the answer now. Somebody must have mistaken Q9001 with QS9000. Q9001 is a certification for education.

No, that was not the case. Some ill advised soul thought: If ISO 9001 certification is good, QS-9000 certification is even better. And proceeded to convince a school that certification to an automotive QMS standard would look good in their promotional campaign....

I can't wait until accreditation becomes regulated and charlatains are sent to jail.

 

[Sidney Vianna]

Heard recently that the IATF will now allow for fabless semiconductor organizations to attain TS 16949 certification.

Has anyone else heard the same? As far as I can tell, this is not in the 3rd edition of the Rules book.