Can a Quality Manager be a Lead ISO 9001 Auditor?

M

midrpz

#1
We are trying to determine training for either myself (former auditor) or my manager, as lead auditor. He seems to recall that a QM is not allowed to be the lead auditor (ISO9000) of the organization , it that true? We are implementing ISO from scratch at a small company...
Thanks in advance.
 
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#2
What the standard requires is that auditors do not audit their own work. I would imagine that he could audit a lot of things without auditing his own work, but that comment comes without knowing the particulars of your company.

Where the difficulty lies is when there is only one internal auditor.
 
I

immaya08

#4
Just don't forget to wear different hat for specific area being audited; if QM is auditing, auditor's hat is appropriate, he/she no longer functions as the QM.
 
#6
We are trying to determine training for either myself (former auditor) or my manager, as lead auditor. He seems to recall that a QM is not allowed to be the lead auditor (ISO9000) of the organization , it that true? We are implementing ISO from scratch at a small company...
Thanks in advance.
Always best not to use memory but to refer to ISO 9001! Actually, being a "Lead Auditor" in a small company is, in my experience, a waste of time. The 4 or 5 day course is really for external auditors and it might be more cost effective to have just a 2 or 3 day course, frankly. The extra cost isn't really justified, IMHO!
 
I

immaya08

#7
Always best not to use memory but to refer to ISO 9001! Actually, being a "Lead Auditor" in a small company is, in my experience, a waste of time. The 4 or 5 day course is really for external auditors and it might be more cost effective to have just a 2 or 3 day course, frankly. The extra cost isn't really justified, IMHO!
AndyN is absolutely correct. unless you're planning to have a career shift, LATC is gonna be a good training investment.:cool:
 

Randy

Super Moderator
#9
Always best not to use memory but to refer to ISO 9001! Actually, being a "Lead Auditor" in a small company is, in my experience, a waste of time. The 4 or 5 day course is really for external auditors and it might be more cost effective to have just a 2 or 3 day course, frankly. The extra cost isn't really justified, IMHO!
My opinion as well, waste of resources
 
M

midrpz

#10
Thanks all for the good info; so reassuring to hear the same opinion from various people! So that might have been the issue he was thinking off, just don?t audit your own area, which is yes, a basic rule on the element of Internal Audits.. ! The both of us are a little rusty on ISO implem. and are getting back to using this ability after years away from ISO environments?
There?s going to be more than one auditor so we should be OK about our QM not auditing his own area. We plan to develop 2 office people that have no experience on a regulated environment whatsoever, but since this is as I mentioned, a small company and the products are not too complex we think it'd work OK.
I went to the standard by AndyN?s suggestion (thanks) :bonk:and I think I got the answer to my next dilemma: 1) do we need to define someone as the lead auditor? (nothing to this effect in the standard), and 2) do we need a formal specific ?Lead Auditor training? (there?s no mention of a specific training or courses required in the standard).
What I want to nail down is whether we can just use some kind of online course to train us on internal auditing to keep costs low, without the need of a more formal ?Lead auditor training?? would you guys agree? So the certifiers wouldn?t force for us to have long expensive courses to train our auditors and/or our Lead??
3) and, we might not have to define a lead auditor at all?
 
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