Can An External Auditor Also Write The Same Non-Conformance As An Internal Auditor?

J

JJ777

Can the external surveillance auditor also write out the same non-conformance as the internal auditor?

We normally have our internal audits before our surveillance audit. When I did the audit I found a non-conformance in one of sections and raised it. Was noted in the audit report and a corrective action was submitted with the report for the noted non-conformance.
The surveillance auditor also chose to audit that section and found the same non-conformance(Corrective Action was completed with mitigation plans). I did not noted it as such untill we recieved the audit report.

I always thought that if the internal auditor raised a non-conformance the external auditor can only note that a non-conformance has been raised.
 

somashekar

Leader
Admin
Re: Can An External Auditor Also Write The Same Non-Conformance As An Internal Audito

Can the external surveillance auditor also write out the same non-conformance as the internal auditor?
Yes, he can, as he is finding the NC and evidences to support that a NC exists in his samples.
I did not noted it as such untill we recieved the audit report.
The closing meeting makes these clear. The CB auditor wraps up with communicating what NC's will be recorded for your action. However if at the audit process this NC has a mention, it still stands.
I always thought that if the internal auditor raised a non-conformance the external auditor can only note that a non-conformance has been raised.
No. This is not the way it goes.
 

Randy

Super Moderator
Re: Can An External Auditor Also Write The Same Non-Conformance As An Internal Audito

NC already identified and in the system? Very, very poor practice
 

Colin

Quite Involved in Discussions
Re: Can An External Auditor Also Write The Same Non-Conformance As An Internal Audito

I agree it is not normally good practice - but what if an organisation knows there are holes in the system, goes around and raises a heap of N/C's on an internal audit the week before the surveillance just to stop the external auditor from raising them?

In principle, I have no problem if the corrective actions have been agreed and sensible timescales put on them but I wouldn't accept it if it was being used in the way I describe above.
 

Randy

Super Moderator
Re: Can An External Auditor Also Write The Same Non-Conformance As An Internal Audito

Can the external surveillance auditor also write out the same non-conformance as the internal auditor?

He said the same NC, not different.

In the end the auditor can raise another if he chooses, but I'd tell him to his face he's a lazy and lousy a** auditor
 

AndyN

Moved On
Re: Can An External Auditor Also Write The Same Non-Conformance As An Internal Audito

Firstly, if it wasn't mentioned during the audit, and only in the report, that's bad practice! If the auditor also found it during their audit, not just because they read the internal audit report, then I see no reason why they shouldn't write it - it is, after all what they saw! Randy may be jumping to a conclusion here!

The fact is really that your internal audit program may need an overhaul! If you only do audits before the surveillance audits, you aren't in compliance with ISO 9001 and, what's more, you are putting yourself in such a situation because you're not leaving sufficient time to fix anything!

Let's forget whether the external auditor was doing good. They have been allowing you to do ineffective audit management for a lot longer!
 

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Leader
Admin
Re: Can An External Auditor Also Write The Same Non-Conformance As An Internal Audito

I always thought that if the internal auditor raised a non-conformance the external auditor can only note that a non-conformance has been raised.
Some good discussions on this topic were had in a couple of previous threads:
Internal Audit Corrective Actions - Can a CB write an NC on an in-process CA? & Should the Registrar write a NC for something identified during an Internal Audit?

It makes for very good reading on this recurring subject.
 
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