Can an MR (Management Representative) be a Document Controller as well?

C

Cheryl Lourdes

#1
Hi all,

I am about to do a 4th survelillance ISO9001:2008 job for my client, BUT their Document Controller has resigned just recently.
Can i act as the DC and an MR at the same time during the audit with external auditors?

Should i being the MR - be part of employment of my client - is this part of the new standard?

thanks for replying.

regards
cheryl
 
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Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#3
Hi all,

I am about to do a 4th survelillance ISO9001:2008 job for my client, BUT their Document Controller has resigned just recently.
Can i act as the DC and an MR at the same time during the audit with external auditors?

Should i being the MR - be part of employment of my client - is this part of the new standard?

thanks for replying.

regards
cheryl
Are you a consultant for your Client? If yes, you may be able to assist with the document management process during the surveillance audit, but not playing Management Representative.

Stijloor.
 
D

DrM2u

#6
I am about to do a 4th survelillance ISO9001:2008 job for my client, BUT their Document Controller has resigned just recently.
Can i act as the DC and an MR at the same time during the audit with external auditors?
I am not aware of any special qualification requirements for the DC position. I guess that you can do it if it is assigned to you by the rest of the management team and you have the qualifications defined by the organization.
Should i being the MR - be part of employment of my client - is this part of the new standard?
Well, ISO 9001:2008 clause 5.5.2 states "top management shall appoint a member of the organization's management who [...]". There is not sanctioned interpretation that I am aware of indicating that a member of the organization's management has to be an employee of the organization. Therefore, a consultant could be a member of the management team and be appointed as MR. This approach will probably be challenged by some auditors but can be supported by records evidencing that the consultant is part of the management team (i.e. a contractual agreement indicating managerial responsibilities, management review records, etc).
:topic:Other standards are a little more specific as to who can be the MR.
 

ScottK

Not out of the crisis
Staff member
Super Moderator
#7
If there is a job description for "Document Controller" and it indicates that this person is a full time employee and you are not, then you may run into trouble.
 

SteelMaiden

Super Moderator
Trusted Information Resource
#8
Will the document controller ever be replaced? Most of us, if we've been doing this for any length of time have ended up without a key person in an audit because they've left for whatever reason...new job elsewhere in company, promotion, new job outside the company, whatever. This is why your QMS should have responsibilities defined for who can fill in for high level (key) positions within the QMS. If you and the company can justify why you should be doing this job, do it. If it isn't temporary, document it.
 
R

Richard Pike

#9
Well, ISO 9001:2008 clause 5.5.2 states "top management shall appoint a member of the organization's management who [...]". There is not sanctioned interpretation that I am aware of indicating that a member of the organization's management has to be an employee of the organization. Therefore, a consultant could be a member of the management team and be appointed as MR.

Now that is an interesting twist which could argue against the 2008 requirement insinuating Man Reps cannot be consultants#
 
Last edited by a moderator:
D

DrM2u

#10
Now that is an interesting twist which could argue against the 2008 requirement insinuating Man Reps cannot be consultants#
The key word is 'insinuating'. :notme: I go by the requirements that are written on paper and what is sanctioned as an interpretaion. The rest is subject to my interpretation and it's my onus to argue and support my position.:rolleyes: Sometimes drives auditors crazy. :lmao:
 
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