Can an OEM like Honda, GM, Ford can get TS 16949 certification?

[SilverHawk]

Ford Malaysia has been certifieid to ISO/TS 16949 few years ago and DCX Malaysia is planning to go for it with an OEM assembly plant in Pahang, Malaysia.... Just wondering how DCX is going to do it ??

 

[Paul Simpson]

Can an OEM like Honda, GM, Ford can get TS 16949:2002 certification? If yes then who will be consider as their customer?

The VCA has certified a whole bunch of OEMs to TS.

When I was working at Jaguar they made the transition from QS to ISO TS. They also have 14k. There are a whole range of others - I will see if I can get a list.

 

[shamhaider]

Hi guys;
we are having interseting debate, how about a truck manufacturing facility that assembles trucks (1.5T to 4T) using chinese technology.but the problem is chinese are not providing technology e.g. math data., drawings.instead they only provide the reference sample parts and the company has to reverse engineer it to develop those parts locally.This plant is in pakistan.and almost 70% parts are developed locally(without any drawing,CAD, MATH data)..now this facilty wants TS 16949..I am doing some research on this now adays..i need comments feedback from all of you..Thanks

 

[Sean Kelley]

When we went through our TS registration audit we needed to show evidence that a customer was requiring TS certification of our company. Even the weak encourage TS certification was not enough it had to be a customer specific requirement (CSR). Who requires GM to be TS certified when they are assembling a car?

The Ford plants I have been to could not pass a TS audit. They have very strict and good supplier CSR's but they themselves did not follow most of the basics. I have not been to Honda or GM.

 

[Paul Simpson]

Hi guys;
we are having interseting debate, how about a truck manufacturing facility that assembles trucks (1.5T to 4T) using chinese technology.but the problem is chinese are not providing technology e.g. math data., drawings.instead they only provide the reference sample parts and the company has to reverse engineer it to develop those parts locally.This plant is in pakistan.and almost 70% parts are developed locally(without any drawing,CAD, MATH data)..now this facilty wants TS 16949..I am doing some research on this now adays..i need comments feedback from all of you..Thanks

Hi, Shamhaider. You probably want to start another thread for this one! Otherwise it will get lost in all the other information about OEM certification.

Following on from my earlier post the following is some old data I have retrieved. It is from the early days of TS2 do I am sure the list is a lot longer.

Jaguar Cars Limited Castle Bromwich Assembly Plant ISO/TS 16949:2002
Jaguar Cars Limited Halewood Stamping & Asembly ISO/TS 16949:2002
Jaguar Cars Limited Whitley Engineering Centre ISO/TS 16949:2002
Volkswagen A.G. VOLKSWAGEN Autoeuropa Quinta da ISO/TS 16949:2002
Land Rover Group Limited Solihull ISO/TS 16949:2002
Land Rover Group Limited Oxford Plant ISO/TS 16949:2002

All the Ford plants in the US are down as ISO 9001.2000.

 

[vanputten]

From the IATF FAQ's on who can be registered to TS:

"This Technical Specification is applicable to sites of the organization where production and/or service parts specified by the customer are manufactured."

Who is the customer that is specifying the production or service parts for the auto OEM? It could be the dealer.

The above is not a leading question. I have no idea what the answer is.

Thank you,

Dirk

 

[Alex Kobzar]

Customers of the Tier I's <deleted - thanks to Mr. Paul Simpson> OEM's are those who pays them the $: the dealerships!

...I guess that the car-buyers may also be considered by Tier I 's as a sort of a group of customers of the dealerships...


I recall a fleet officer at my former job.
The man has been given the right to actually choose a model to buy (eventually: in a specified price range).
When many elderly ppl from the stuff wanted Renault Megans or Citroen's Xara (for comfortable seats );
the youngsters were backing the concept of Mazda Lantis (Protege) as an over-all better-looking, reportedly reliable and relatively confortable car:
the Man has bought the nightmare of Mitsubishi Lancers for easiness of changing of the water pump!
He himself talked freely about the rational behind the decision (the man was to change the pumps with a little help of the kibbutz's technicians every 100,000 km !: )))))
The moral of the story is:

Know Your Customer!

 

[Paul Simpson]

Customers of the Tier I's are those who pays them the $: the dealerships!

...I guess that the car-buyers may also be considered by Tier I 's as a sort of a group of customers of the dealerships...

The Tier 1 is the direct supply chain to the OEM (and Tier 2 are their suppliers, ....). The OEM's customers (among others) are the franchise dealerships.

In terms of application. ISO TS can apply anywhere in the supply chain. I know one Jaguar site listed supplies bodyshells and painting services to other plants (and is therefore a Tier 1).

I believe some OEMs are obtaining certification to TS to show that it is not a case of "do as I say, not as I do!"

 

[shamhaider]

Can the dealership be treated as customers..How about the endusers..If we take dealers as customers, then how will an oraganization react to the customer specific requirements..since delaer are sort of partners in the business..

 

[harry]

Can the dealership be treated as customers..How about the endusers..If we take dealers as customers, then how will an oraganization react to the customer specific requirements..since delaer are sort of partners in the business..

You are right to question this. Dealerships are what is termed as intermediaries in marketing. They are agents. They help to serve and sell and channel all customer complaints/feedback back to the manufacturer. The end user/purchaser is still the customer.

The current trend is not to appoint exclusive agents but joint venture types so that manufacturers have better control over customer service. Apparently, dealers had not been providing adequate customer feedback. The manufacturer would like to get closer to the customer as they put it.

I am not sure if they do the same in their home country but that's what most do over here.