Can flowcharts replace text based Procedures?

[Claes Gefvenberg]

Re: Can flowcharts replace Procedures?

Heatcraft said:
---X---

I would like to have.
1) Quality Manual- the basic repeat of the standard
2) Flowcharts for procedures
3) Forms to document system.

Will this work?

1) I agree with Randy: Why? There is certainly no requirement to do that.

2) Well. I like flow charts too, make no mistake about it, but dont be afraid to add a bit of text too. You may still need it once in a while...

3) Forms... Sure, and you don't necessarily need to stick to paper...A lot of the data may already be available in mps systems, databases and such...

Welcome to the Cove

/Claes

 

[Mike S.]

I’m with Claes. I don’t buy the idea of flowcharts and pictures being the ONLY valuable format for procedures, instructions, etc. That’s too broad of a statement for my taste. IMO it depends on the situation. Don’t get me wrong, I think flowcharts are great tools, as are pictures, diagrams, etc. and they can be the best tool for the job in many cases, and they (flowcharts) can stand-alone. But sometimes, in my experience, regular old text does the job best. I think we need to keep all of these tools in our toolbox and not assume any one tool is always best. As the old saying goes, to the man who only has a hammer, every problem looks like a nail. Just my penny’s worth.

 

[M Greenaway]

True Mike, the flowchart format cerainly does not suit a technical instruction for one example.

But I think a process diagram is far better at describing what our processes are, and how they interact, rather than reams of text. I think they serve as a good replacement of the tradional level 2 procedures that we have all come to know.

 

[db]

My advice is always not to stick to any one particular method. I find that in many cases, one department or process will be better served by a graphic procedure or work instruction, and another might be better suited with narrative. Use which ever method makes sense where ever it makes sense.

BTW, I had a run in with an auditor who issued a major because she said that procedures have to be narrative. Flowcharting was not allowed. She would not back down, and my client would not let me intervene with the registrar. They felt it would only make future audits harder. They essentially re-wrote their entire level 2 documentation. (the also claimed I gave them "bad advice" in making procedures that were noncompliant.) Oh well

 

[M Greenaway]

db

That sucks !

You must stand up to this as it is utter crap.

 

[Craig H.]

Dave:

I would be very tempted to have a discussion about this auditor with the "powers that be". Who does she think she is, anyway?

If the customer is worried about having a hard time in future audits, with this type of auditor they ought to be.

Craig

 

[Mike S.]

AMEN!!! Auditors like that should be fish bait!

 

[Al Dyer]

Always remember that you are the customer and you pay the bills!!!

Flex your might when need be and never let an auditor look down on you.

After a few complaints, the registrar will actually find out that they have a couple of bad auditors.

Al...

 

[Karen R]

Re: PICTURES ARE KOOL !

noboxwine said:

GOOD LUCK AND LET ME KNOW IF YOU NEED SOME EXAMPLES-----:thedeal:

I, for one, would appreciate some examples. I'd like to use flowcharts more in our process, but haven't had much luck finding examples I could adapt...

Thanks!

 

[db]

Always remember that you are the customer and you pay the bills!!!

I would be very tempted to have a discussion about this auditor with the "powers that be". Who does she think she is, anyway?

In this case, I was the consultant. Now the company has to make a decision. Who is right...the person who helped them put the QMS together, or the one who is grading them? They chose the latter. I do think it is a shame that now they are stuck with any little whim of the auditor.

AMEN!!! Auditors like that should be fish bait!

Sorry Mike, wrong thread...........go to the Huntin and Fishin thread.