Can flowcharts replace text based Procedures?

T

Teknow

Quote "its because I am too tight to subscribe to this forum."

I thought that you could still post attachments, just not be able to download any if you hadn't subscribed?

:vfunny:
 

Mike S.

Happy to be Alive
Trusted Information Resource
M Greenaway said:

No problem Mike, its because I am too tight to subscribe to this forum.

Martin,

As I understand it, you can still POST anything you want, anywhere you want. But you can only retrieve attachments from the forums help and coffee break area or whatever it is called. So, I suppose if you want to post something that you want anyone to be able to download, you should post it in the free area. That spot might become popular for "girlie pics" soon the way it sounds! :vfunny:

Also, you can e-mail stuff to people of course. :bigwave:
 
E

energy

Oh Boy!

M Greenaway said:

No problem Mike, its because I am too tight to subscribe to this forum.

Not spending less than 7 cents a day to enjoy all the amenities is more than tight. It's waterproof!:vfunny: :smokin:
 
E

energy

I know

I thought about it just as I hit the submit button. I also promised to not discuss it further. But, when I see it mentioned I kind of forget. Blame it on old age. Maybe nobody will notice. I can't delete the post, even if I wanted to.;) :smokin:
 
M

M Greenaway

Oh yes, so I can.

Sorry will post the attachment
 

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  • Can flowcharts replace text based Procedures?
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A

Al Dyer

M:

Very nice flowchart!

What does it tell us?

Who?, What? When? Where? Why?

No, it does not tell up much, looks like statements in one of those generic policy manuals that says that yes we do it!!!!!!!! but look somewhere else to on how to do it!!!!!

Am I wrong? If so let's talk!!!!

Al...:bigwave: :bigwave: :)
 
M

M Greenaway

Al - you are absolutely right.

It is very 'high level' in that it just identifies the 'cornerstones' of the audit process.

Does it say enough ? Well to a skilled auditor who undertakes all audits, probably yes, to a newbee - maybe no.

How would we close the gap for the newbee ? Well training is obviously fundemental, or we could hang work instructions off of each process box if desired, or indeed we could drill down on each process element to lower level sub-processes if the information we need to convey is best suited to this medium.

In the real version we do identify standard form references on this map, and we actually still have a procedure which contains the detail, and is identified as a control on this map for each process box.

Do we need the procedure and the map ? Dunno, but my vision is to pursue deletion of text based procedures and replace them with maps such as this. If we need text or diagrams for a certain process element we will create a works instruction.

What are the advantages ? Well I think it gives people flexibility within the process to express their personal flair, the downside of this is the potential for loss of control - so the maps need to be a fine balance. Also it focusses the individual, and any auditor on the key elements of the process - sorting the wood from the trees if you will, hence the instruction on the process is more immediate and auditors dont get bogged down if, for example, the audit schedule is done in MS Offfice Tasks instead of form ABC123 Issue 3.
 
E

energy

I'm no longer either one, but...

M Greenaway said:

Does it say enough ? Well to a skilled auditor who undertakes all audits, probably yes, to a newbee - maybe no.

M.

From my limited viewpoint, being neither a newbee or a skilled auditor, the map looks good to me. The auditor can always ask "how" to those process blocks. From there it either training alone or procedure/training. I have just one little question. You have "Witnessed Process Activity" as an input to the core Audit Process. I think I know why you have it there, instead of along side of "Process Status/Importance", in the upper L/H group on the map. It just looks strange out there by its lonesome. I would think there would be some input off of scheduling to that lonely boy. But, I'm not the skilled auditor here and I defer to those that are. I like it! :agree: :smokin:
 
M

M Greenaway

E

Absolutely - there is enough to audit against.

For example the map shows audit scheduling, as an auditor I can ask for evidence of this and then make a judgement on its suitability. I wont be blinded because a procedure says the schedule should be on a certain form, or authorised by a certain person, etc, etc - my focus will be the content of the schedule.

Witnessed process activity is what I see during the audit. I deliberated long and hard over what to call this input, I could have purely called it process activity maybe, dunno. Its basically the starting point for this element of the map. What we do in audit is look at people doing things in their process, the outputs, etc, etc.

I am open to suggestions for a better name.
 
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