Can I accept TS16949 or QS-9000 to cover accredited laboratory documentation?

J

JMDCJMDC

I'm qualifying a PPAP Book and I receiving TS 16949 & QS-9000 certs as accredited laboratory documentation, usually, I was expecting to receive ISO/IEC guide 25 or ISO/IEC 17025.

Could I accept TS16949 & QS-9000 as accreditted lab documentation?

I wil appreciate your help.
:confused:
 

Jim Wynne

Leader
Admin
JMDCJMDC said:
I'm qualifying a PPAP Book and I receiving TS 16949 & QS-9000 certs as accredited laboratory documentation, usually, I was expecting to receive ISO/IEC guide 25 or ISO/IEC 17025.

Could I accept TS16949 & QS-9000 as accreditted lab documentation?

I wil appreciate your help.
:confused:
According to QS9000, QS9000 registration is not sufficient; a "qualified lab" is one that's accredited by a nationally recognized accreditation body, such as A2LA.
 

Howard Atkins

Forum Administrator
Leader
Admin
It depends if the laboratory is internal or external.
I know that some PPAP's include the suppliers certificate in the laboratory divider,( because they have to put 19 dividers and need to waste paper :mad: )

If the laboratory is internal- that of the supplier then in QS this is acceptable.
TS also does not require registration to ISO 17025, see note to 7.6.3.1.

If the laboratory is external/commercial/independent- then they must be ISO 17025 or approved by your customer.
 

Jim Wynne

Leader
Admin
Howard Atkins said:
It depends if the laboratory is internal or external.
I know that some PPAP's include the suppliers certificate in the laboratory divider,( because they have to put 19 dividers and need to waste paper :mad: )

If the laboratory is internal- that of the supplier then in QS this is acceptable.
TS also does not require registration to ISO 17025, see note to 7.6.3.1.

If the laboratory is external/commercial/independent- then they must be ISO 17025 or approved by your customer.
You are correct. I neglected to mention that the requirement applies to outside, independent labs. Makes no sense, but that's the way it its.
 
K

Ken K

If the laboratory is internal- that of the supplier then in QS this is acceptable.

Not true when it comes to GM. Doesn't matter if the company is QS or TS. GM will not accept test data if your internal lab is not ISO17025 accredited.
 
K

Kevin H

The standards do not require certification of an internal lab to ISO Guide 17025. If your quality management system requires it (as Ken notes that GM's customer specific requirements do), then it should be identified by your customer as a customer specific requirement, and they should meet that requirement. Realistically - are you important enough to that supplier to push them to have an internal lab become registered to ISO Guide 17025, and will it improve their capbility as a lab?

At my previous employer, we chose to register internal labs that reported results to customers to ISO Guide 25 (17025's predecessor - we were upgading to 17025 when I changed employers). We estimated that it added about $5,000 more in annual lab costs per lab to maintain that registration, not including additional paperwork costs/effort by the lab supervisors. We felt that the registration provided an extra look at lab operations and helped improve lab accuracy.
 
B

Bill Ryan - 2007

Ken K said:
Not true when it comes to GM. Doesn't matter if the company is QS or TS. GM will not accept test data if your internal lab is not ISO17025 accredited.
How are you defining "test data"? They accept our internal lab for tensile/compression tests and even some "easier" types of yield and elongation testing without ISO 17025 accreditation.
 

Hershal

Metrologist-Auditor
Trusted Information Resource
The short answer is the registration under QS9000 or TS 16949 is not the same as accreditation under ISO/IEC 17025.

The accreditation under ISO/IEC 17025 should be by an internationally recognized accrediting body such as IAS, NVLAP, A2LA, SCC/CLAS (Canada).

Hope that helps.

Hershal
 
V

vr2ziv

The short answer is the registration under QS9000 or TS 16949 is not the same as accreditation under ISO/IEC 17025.

The accreditation under ISO/IEC 17025 should be by an internationally recognized accrediting body such as IAS, NVLAP, A2LA, SCC/CLAS (Canada).

Hope that helps.

Hershal

(In addition to Hershal's answer)
ISO17025 covers not only the quality documentation system (as for ISO9000), but also many technical issues.
My :2cents: is, if your lab do not involve any product/service that you will sell to your customer, than don't border to have ISO17025 accredited (Why border??). However, even if you are not selling the measurement/calibration service of your lab, if what your lab have measure will be used for the product/service you are selling (say, you calibrate a clipper that will be used for measuring the size of your product), it is better to go for accreditation.
 
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