Can I exclude Customer Property? ISO 9001 Clause 7.5.4

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divyavb80

I apologize for the interuption. I couldn't find how to start a new thread. That's why I interrupted here.
My Title is: Clause7.5.4 Customer Property?

I 'm a Quality representative in a Manufacturing company and am in the process of documenting the Quality Manual. When I come to the Clause 7.5.4 Customer Property, I had a doubt should my company excludes this clause.

My company key activities are. Prop hiring and manufacturing Cast-in plates for precast industry. And we don't use any of the clients' material on deliverable rather than drawings and specifications.

So, can we exclude clause7.5.4? Is purchasing products from our supplier is customer property?

It would be greatly appreciated should any of you clarify this clause for me?

Thank you in advance.
 

harry

Trusted Information Resource
Re: Clause7.5.4 Can I exclude Customer Property?

I apologize for the interuption. I couldn't find how to start a new thread. That's why I interrupted here.
My Title is: Clause7.5.4 Customer Property?

I 'm a Quality representative in a Manufacturing company and am in the process of documenting the Quality Manual. When I come to the Clause 7.5.4 Customer Property, I had a doubt should my company excludes this clause.

My company key activities are. Prop hiring and manufacturing Cast-in plates for precast industry. And we don't use any of the clients' material on deliverable rather than drawings and specifications.

So, can we exclude clause7.5.4? Is purchasing products from our supplier is customer property?

It would be greatly appreciated should any of you clarify this clause for me?

Thank you in advance.

Welcome,

First, to start a thread - Asking A Question or Starting a Conversation by Starting a New Thread in a Forum

Next, bear in mind that for the 2008 version, "both intellectual property and personal data should be considered as customer property" (actually this was how it was interpreted all along and the 2008 version only made it clearer - and that includes things like drawings, designs and calculations)

Customer property is not really a 'big' issue in that you don't normally require a procedure for it nor exclude it explicitly. A sentence or paragraph stating that you would take care and protect them as if it were your own and account for it plus inform the customer if there are damages will be sufficient in general.

If you purchase anything from your customer and/or there are evidence of such business transaction (rights to goods having been transferred to you), it is no more a customer property.
 
G

gooofii

Re: Clause7.5.4 Can I exclude Customer Property?

I apologize for the interuption. I couldn't find how to start a new thread. That's why I interrupted here.
My Title is: Clause7.5.4 Customer Property?

I 'm a Quality representative in a Manufacturing company and am in the process of documenting the Quality Manual. When I come to the Clause 7.5.4 Customer Property, I had a doubt should my company excludes this clause.

My company key activities are. Prop hiring and manufacturing Cast-in plates for precast industry. And we don't use any of the clients' material on deliverable rather than drawings and specifications.

So, can we exclude clause7.5.4? Is purchasing products from our supplier is customer property?

It would be greatly appreciated should any of you clarify this clause for me?

Thank you in advance.

Welcome to the Cove:bigwave::bigwave:

Actually I in our QM, I add this section for the drawings , designs {intellectual property } for the customer in the DOcument Control Procedure. u really dont need to make a separate procedure like Harry is saying. for other goods and products, in fact as we are a manufacture company as well, so we dont get any thing from customer apart from drawings (perhaps same as urs) so you dont need to mension any i assumed. As for what you purchase from supliers; its actually yours untill you deliver it to the customer, so its not really a customer property.
hope this help.

P.S, I've just done with our Quality Maunal for ISO9001, so you are welcome to ask any while you go through your other procedures.
 
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divyavb80

Re: Clause7.5.4 Can I exclude Customer Property?

Thank you very much for your kind help. Hope I need your help until I complete the manual.
 

AndyN

Moved On
Re: Clause7.5.4 Can I exclude Customer Property?

I apologize for the interuption. I couldn't find how to start a new thread. That's why I interrupted here.
My Title is: Clause7.5.4 Customer Property?

I 'm a Quality representative in a Manufacturing company and am in the process of documenting the Quality Manual. When I come to the Clause 7.5.4 Customer Property, I had a doubt should my company excludes this clause.

My company key activities are. Prop hiring and manufacturing Cast-in plates for precast industry. And we don't use any of the clients' material on deliverable rather than drawings and specifications.

So, can we exclude clause7.5.4? Is purchasing products from our supplier is customer property?

It would be greatly appreciated should any of you clarify this clause for me?

Thank you in advance.

Typically, 'Customer Property' applies to something the customer owns, sends to you for processing and, having completed it you then return it. Like your car when you take it to a dealer for service, or your shoes when you take them to be re-soled (does anyone do that these days?).

Your expectation (as a customer) is for them (the supplier) to take care of it, do the work without damaging it and return it as requested. If they (the supplier) find something is wrong and could affect the work they (the supplier) would do, wouldn't you like to know, first? All you have to do is consider these situations (if they apply) as if you are the supplier!
 
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JaneB

Re: Clause7.5.4 Can I exclude Customer Property?

Here's a couple of examples:

A company who sells specialised tools and takes them back and repairs them if they break down. It is the 'taking them back' that makes them 'customer supplied property'. If they did the repair at the customer site, it (probably) wouldn't apply.

A property/real estate firm (realty in the US I think) who has keys to various houses and flats that they rent and sell. The keys are property supplied by the customer, and which will ultimately be returned.

I've had different auditors take different positions on something like the following: Drawings, specifications, etc supplied by a customer. Examples include:
  • a manufacturing firm so that they can make special mouldings for the customer
  • a specialised consulting engineering firm to use as reference inputs, in order for them to produce their mathematical models
In no case do the drawings, specs, etc. need to be returned. I've had a couple of auditors consider something like this as falling under 7.5.4, and insist it not be excluded from scope, where others have accepted the exclusion, and consider them as customer inputs.
 
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JaneB

Re: Clause7.5.4 Can I exclude Customer Property?

Typically, 'Customer Property' applies to something the customer owns, sends to you for processing and, having completed it you then return it. Like your car when you take it to a dealer for service, or your shoes when you take them to be re-soled (does anyone do that these days?).

I agree with you that this is 'typical', Andy.
But what about the less typical - eg, intellectual property or personal data? I don't see that it's possible to 'return' IP, do you? (Unless it's something stored on a media such as a CD etc)
I'd be interested in your thoughts on the examples I quoted in previous post.
 

AndyN

Moved On
Re: Clause7.5.4 Can I exclude Customer Property?

I agree with you that this is 'typical', Andy.
But what about the less typical - eg, intellectual property or personal data? I don't see that it's possible to 'return' IP, do you? (Unless it's something stored on a media such as a CD etc)
I'd be interested in your thoughts on the examples I quoted in previous post.

jane, good point!

I've always considered the requirement to include some aspect of use/processing, so - as we are both consultants (well, I was) we'd consider being 'loaned' a client's documentation, which we might review/comment on, not write all over and then return. If it was deficient, perhaps against a standard etc. we might bring that to their attention. Of course we wouldn't 'share' or 'blab' about their documentation or its contents, would we??!!

When I ran training courses on a client's site, I might be given a room, tables, chairs etc. Before I ripped into changing it to make it more convenient for training, I might ask the client if it was O.K and then ensure that it was returned to the original configuration. If, as has happened, the room was unsuitable (can you imagine trying to train in what amounted to a diner with booths?) I might explain that the layout was unsatisfactory, bring it to their attention that the training experience might suffer and get their understanding before moving on (it's unlikely they would reschedule, you have to be flexible)

Does that help?
 
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divyavb80

Re: Clause7.5.4 Can I exclude Customer Property?

Jane,

My doubt araise from your first post.

As a manufacturing/ Prop hiring company, we do get the drawings from client and input the information from the drawings and manufacture and deliver to the customer. And do not return the customer property(drawings & specifications)

That's why, I'm confused should I exclude this clause or not.
 

howste

Thaumaturge
Trusted Information Resource
Re: Clause7.5.4 Can I exclude Customer Property?

ISO 9001:2008 said:
The organization shall exercise care with customer property while it is under the organization's control or being used by the organization. The organization shall identify, verify, protect and safeguard customer property provided for use or incorporation into the product. If any customer property is lost, damaged or otherwise found to be unsuitable for use, the organization shall report this to the customer and maintain records (see 4.2.4).
NOTE Customer property can include intellectual property and personal data.
In my mind it's very clear. It's the customer's intellectual property that has been provided for your company's use. 7.5.4 must apply.
 
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