Can I exclude Customer Property? ISO 9001 Clause 7.5.4

[jeanmarc - 2011]

Re: Clause 7.5.4 - Can I exclude Customer Property?

Hi,

We are currently undertaking a full review of QMS procedures in view of surveillance audit against ISO 9001:2008 and on revisiting Clause 7.5.4 I'm still questioning if we need this.

My company operates in the insurance/financial sector and from interpretation Clause 7.5.4 we don't strictly collect any customer-property. However, we do collect records from clients, eg. photocopies of utility bills, national id details, contractual agreements etc....

As per clause which states "......The organisation shall identify, verify, protect, and safeguard customer property provided for use or incorporation into the product". I doubt we do this.

However, the note "customer property may include....personal data, worries me.

Grateful to have your comments whether i need to keep the procedure for Customer Property.

Jean-Marc

 

[harry]

Re: Clause 7.5.4 - Can I exclude Customer Property?

we do collect records from clients, eg. photocopies of utility bills, national id details, contractual agreements etc....

However, the note "customer property may include....personal data, worries me.

To me, the clarification note is added to take care of organizations like yours. But what's your worry? Just show how you are taking care (security measures) of these information - no?

 

[brahmaiah]

Re: Clause 7.5.4 - Can I exclude Customer Property?

I apologize for the interuption. I couldn't find how to start a new thread. That's why I interrupted here.
My Title is: Clause7.5.4 Customer Property?

I 'm a Quality representative in a Manufacturing company and am in the process of documenting the Quality Manual. When I come to the Clause 7.5.4 Customer Property, I had a doubt should my company excludes this clause.

My company key activities are. Prop hiring and manufacturing Cast-in plates for precast industry. And we don't use any of the clients' material on deliverable rather than drawings and specifications.

So, can we exclude clause7.5.4? Is purchasing products from our supplier is customer property?

It would be greatly appreciated should any of you clarify this clause for me?

Thank you in advance.

You cannot exclude clause 7.5.4.If you are not recieving any customer property,you mention it in your Tier -1 Quality manual.And during audits if you are asked you may tell the auditor that you donot recieve any customer property.
Products purchased from your customer are not customer property.They will undergo all inspection formalities like any other purchased products.
V.J.Brahmaiah

 

[SteelMaiden]

Re: Clause 7.5.4 - Can I exclude Customer Property?

You cannot exclude clause 7.5.4.
V.J.Brahmaiah

What? Are you saying that one cannot exclude the customer property section of the standard? I am very confused by the brevity of your statement and cannot tell if you mean that nobody can exclude it, or if you just mean that the poster cannot.

 

[AndyN]

Re: Clause 7.5.4 - Can I exclude Customer Property?

Hi,

We are currently undertaking a full review of QMS procedures in view of surveillance audit against ISO 9001:2008 and on revisiting Clause 7.5.4 I'm still questioning if we need this.

My company operates in the insurance/financial sector and from interpretation Clause 7.5.4 we don't strictly collect any customer-property. However, we do collect records from clients, eg. photocopies of utility bills, national id details, contractual agreements etc....

As per clause which states "......The organisation shall identify, verify, protect, and safeguard customer property provided for use or incorporation into the product". I doubt we do this.

However, the note "customer property may include....personal data, worries me.

Grateful to have your comments whether i need to keep the procedure for Customer Property.

Jean-Marc

Although it may not be that you send this information back to the customer 'in the product', it is incorporated into the service. Think of it like this. If you didn't have complete information from the photocopies of utility bills, national id details, contractual agreements etc., could you process them? If you lost some of these photocopies of utility bills, national id details, contractual agreements etc. what would the customer think?

It's probably better to err on the side of caution and if it is a major part of your business processes, simply describe that 'customer property is handled through your normal business processes - it is, isn't it? You check it when it arrives, make sure it's correct for the job, identify it etc....

 

[brahmaiah]

Re: Clause 7.5.4 - Can I exclude Customer Property?

What? Are you saying that one cannot exclude the customer property section of the standard? I am very confused by the brevity of your statement and cannot tell if you mean that nobody can exclude it, or if you just mean that the poster cannot.

I meant the clause is not like clause 7.3 which can be excluded as in the following QMS requirement.(Note the highlighted sentence.)

"Where any requirement(s) of this International Standard cannot be applied due to the nature of an
organization and its product, this can be considered for exclusion.

Where exclusions are made, claims of conformity to this International Standard are not acceptable unless
these exclusions are limited to requirements within Clause 7, and such exclusions do not affect the
organization's ability, or responsibility, to provide product that meets customer and applicable statutory and
regulatory requirements.

The only permitted exclusions for this Technical Specification relate to 7.3 where the organization is not responsible for product design and development.

Permitted exclusions do not include manufacturing process design."

V.J.BRAHMAIAH

 

[harry]

The only permitted exclusions for this Technical Specification relate to 7.3 where the organization is not responsible for product design and development.

As the word technical specification is there, I believe you quoted from ISO/TS 16949. But this is a thread on clause 7.5.4 of ISO 9001 (please re-read the forum title)


In order not to confuse new users let me explain. This is from clause 1.2 (Application) of the ISO 9001 standard.

"Where any requirement(s) of this International Standard cannot be applied due to the nature of an organization and its product, this can be considered for exclusion.

Where exclusions are made, claims of conformity to this International Standard are not acceptable unless these exclusions are limited to requirements within Clause 7, and such exclusions do not affect the
organization's ability, or responsibility, to provide product that meets customer and applicable statutory and regulatory requirements.

It means any part of clause 7 (sub-clauses) can be excluded provided you meet the requirements.


This part is additional to the above and found in TS 16949.

The only permitted exclusions for this Technical Specification relate to 7.3 where the organization is not responsible for product design and development.

Permitted exclusions do not include manufacturing process design."

So, the requirements are different for ISO 9001 and TS 16949.

A 'tip' for users - Have a look at the forum you are in (adjacent to the welcome sign) before posting.

 

[jeanmarc - 2011]

Thanks to you for all your posts.

I second your thoughts and would rather keep the customer property procedure.


JM

 

[wfong3]

Hi all, i have one question regarding customer property (clause 7.5.4)

Is a product sent back by the customer to the factory and reworked as refurbished unit considered a customer property? The customer here is referring to OEM customer and my company is a contract manufacturer. The OEM customer will then resell these refurbished units to end customer.

 

[somashekar]

Hi all, i have one question regarding customer property (clause 7.5.4)

Is a product sent back by the customer to the factory and reworked as refurbished unit considered a customer property? The customer here is referring to OEM customer and my company is a contract manufacturer. The OEM customer will then resell these refurbished units to end customer.

Yes, it is.
It has been purchased from you already and now belongs to the customer. So it is his property.