Can I use a Laboratory CMM for Gauge Calibration

B

Bmwtone

#1
I have a need to have large Attribute Fixture Gauges calibrated (up to 2000mm x 1000mm x 500mm). Does anyone know if I can use a fully certified Testing Laboratory using a large CMM to calibrate these types of gauges? Our TS auditor suggests he/she prefers we follow the conventional measurement calibration techniques using hard gauging such as mics, verniers etc!
I very much look forward to any valued response
 
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Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#2
Re: Can I use a Lab CMM for Gauge Calibration

I have a need to have large Attribute Fixture Gauges calibrated (up to 2000mm x 1000mm x 500mm). Does anyone know if I can use a fully certified Testing Laboratory using a large CMM to calibrate these types of gauges? Our TS auditor suggests he/she prefers we follow the conventional measurement calibration techniques using hard gauging such as mics, verniers etc!
I very much look forward to any valued response
Welcome to The Cove Forums! :bigwave: :bigwave:

#1. Your "TS Auditor" is not allowed to provide advice on how to do certain things.

#2. A CMM can be used to verify/calibrate your attribute gage.

Stijloor.
 

Ron Rompen

Trusted Information Resource
#3
Re: Can I use a Lab CMM for Gauge Calibration

Just to add on to what Stij has already (correctly) stated.

Using your CMM for calibration of other measuring equipment is perfectly acceptable. However, keep in mind that the required accuracy of your CMM should be following the 1:10 rule as well; i.e. if you are calibrating your gage to ± 0.0005", then your CMM should be accurate to ± 0.00005".
 

Big Jim

Super Moderator
#4
Two thoughts come to mind. I may be wrong, as I'm not involved with TS16949.

First, isn't it a 1:4 rule, not 1:10 rule?

Second, I think that you must use a calibration lab accredited to ISO 17025 if you are registered to TS 16949.
 
F

falconer65

#5
BMW,
We use our CMM for everything we can.

Jim,
Yeah, I had to look it up myself. Here it is paraphrased
7.6.3.1 Internal laboratory
Accreditation to 17025 may be used but is not mandatory.

Seems like I remember 4:1 being what I was taught years ago. Nowadays it seems everyone wants 10:1 to show capability.
 
R

ram4302

#6
Hi

You can calibrate the attribute gauge by using CMM after ensuring its accuracy as explained by our members.

You have create procedure for internal calibration.

:thanx:
 
J

JAltmann

#7
The 4:1 and 10:1 uncertianty ratios are not explicit rules, but good guidelines to help ensure your not commiting type 1 or type 2 errors. That being said the 4:1 rule tend to be the standard under the ISO 17025 standard for laboratory calibrations.

The 10:1 rule comes from the MSA side of things, currently under AIAG's MSA manual but i know dates back to the 50's (i think) in regards to reducing potential errors.

Not all cases will allow for 10:1 realistically with todays tighter tolerances. Basically if you can not preform to these levels you need to mae some provisions for this, either multiple inspections or some form of statistical studies. You must then be able to defend this stance if challenged.
 
M

Mr.Happy

#8
Two thoughts come to mind. I may be wrong, as I'm not involved with TS16949.

First, isn't it a 1:4 rule, not 1:10 rule?

Second, I think that you must use a calibration lab accredited to ISO 17025 if you are registered to TS 16949.
Hi,

We use a 5:1 (or 1:5) for calibrations.
Also we conduct Gage rings calibration on our CMM.
I have an instruction for it and a Excel sheet for writing down the (history)data.
However it is not in English, if you are interested I can make a translation.

For double check you can send one Gage out for calibration and then compare whit your own results. And later on you can do a MSA study.

Cheers
Mr.Happy
 
B

Bmwtone

#9
Many thanks for all of your responses and inputs. What you have highlighted is exactly how I was thinking. I will have to get the specs from the Testing Lab for their CMM capabilities but I am sure that I can progress along these lines.
 
J
#10
Many thanks for all of your responses and inputs. What you have highlighted is exactly how I was thinking. I will have to get the specs from the Testing Lab for their CMM capabilities but I am sure that I can progress along these lines.
Curious - When you say "Testing Lab" are you referring to and outside, independent lab that does you calibrations or an internal quality lab?

If it's an outside lab, there shouldn't be a problem as they are expected to know what they are doing and supply you with proper certifications.
If it is an internal lab - Some of the factors mentioned by others come into play.

Assuming an Internal lab:
To me the bottom line is - can you check the gages with sufficient accuracy and precision, covering all the possible "faults" (roundness, flatness etc) so as to ensure the gage functions properly for it's intended purpose?
This requires that your equipment be sufficiently precise, but also that the personnel doing the check be sufficiently capable - That they understand how the gage is used, the potential failure modes etc.
If the answers to the above are yes, then by all means go ahead and do the check in house...

Peace
James
 
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