Can I use the CMM after the Calibration has expired?

J

jleond

#1
The CMM calibration expires 7-19-08 and the service provider will start the new 2008-09 calibration on the week of 7-28-08. My question is: how long can the CMM be used to measure parts after the due date? I heard that we can use it (legally) 30 days after due date. Is this true? Is there a standard that states this or something related to this?

Thanks in advance for your help.
 
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Coury Ferguson

Moderator here to help
Staff member
Super Moderator
#2
Re: can I use the cmm after calibration expires?

The CMM calibration expires 7-19-08 and the service provider will start the new 2008-09 calibration on the week of 7-28-08. My question is: how long can the CMM be used to measure parts after the due date? I heard that we can use it (legally) 30 days after due date. Is this true? Is there a standard that states this or something related to this?

Thanks in advance for your help.
In my opinion, I don't see a problem with it. I can't address the 30 days after rule.

A Suggestion: Change you Calibration Procedures, stickers and such to only reflect Month/Year only (example: 07/2008). This will help you in the long run.
 

BradM

Staff member
Admin
#3
Re: can I use the cmm after calibration expires?

Hello there!

In general, calibration intervals are much more of an Art than a Science. The perfect calibration interval is that which find error 50-75% of the unacceptable point, at least that is my opinion.

To your point, it would all depend on what your quality management system states. Do you have procedures that states when calibration is past due?

Without anything documented in your system or anything in writing, it does not look good to use any instrument beyond its due date.

The best thing for you do do is establish a calibration procedure for when instruments are recalled for calibration (like month/year), using an instrument past its due date, tagging, etc. Like in your example, I would make the due date 07/08. That way you have the month to get the work done.

Hopefully that helps.
 

BradM

Staff member
Admin
#4
Re: can I use the cmm after calibration expires?

In my opinion, I don't see a problem with it. I can't address the 30 days after rule.
Actually, I agree with you. But... there are many auditors who are not as processed-oriented as they should. They would see 7/19/2008, look at their watch and see 7/22/2008, the absence of any procedural exception, and they start writing.

The best thing to do is write up some exception/ some report stating that your organization says it's OK to use, IMHO.

As far as Rule of Thumbs (30 days, etc.), I have seen them all over the place, and again depends on the industry and the people involved.
 

Coury Ferguson

Moderator here to help
Staff member
Super Moderator
#5
Re: can I use the cmm after calibration expires?

Actually, I agree with you. But... there are many auditors who are not as processed-oriented as they should. They would see 7/19/2008, look at their watch and see 7/22/2008, the absence of any procedural exception, and they start writing.

The best thing to do is write up some exception/ some report stating that your organization says it's OK to use, IMHO.

As far as Rule of Thumbs (30 days, etc.), I have seen them all over the place, and again depends on the industry and the people involved.
If an Auditor is choosing to be that picky, they need to re-evaluate their techniques. We are talking a couple of days, still within the same month of calibration due date.

I would challenge any Auditor that would write this up as an NC.
 

Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#6
Re: can I use the cmm after calibration expires?

If an Auditor is choosing to be that picky, they need to re-evaluate their techniques. We are talking a couple of days, still within the same month of calibration due date.

I would challenge any Auditor that would write this up as an NC.
If I were the auditor, I would look at other instances where devices exceed the stated calibration due date (systemic issue). If this is indeed the case, I would write an NC.

Now, having said that, if you allow deviations from an established requirement, even if it's only one device, where does one "draw the line?"

What do you think?

Stijloor.
 

Coury Ferguson

Moderator here to help
Staff member
Super Moderator
#7
Re: can I use the cmm after calibration expires?

If I were the auditor, I would look at other instances where devices exceed the stated calibration due date (systemic issue). If this is indeed the case, I would write an NC.

Now, having said that, if you allow deviations from an established requirement, even if it's only one device, where does one "draw the line?"

What do you think?

Stijloor.
Alright I see you point. I don't totally agree with, but I understand where this is coming from. (added: if it is a systematic problem then I would identify it as a Major NC, but I think we are talking about one CMM)

My question back is: Is there not a master diametrical sphere to check the accuracy of the CMM? And this diametrical sphere is calibrated to be accurate within millionths or even tenths.

That is why I suggested only identifying the stickers with Month/Year would help in the long run.
 
Last edited:
#8
Firstly, there's nothing 'legal' about it - literally or metaphorically. You should have past data that shows for each calibration, what the 'as found' condition was. Compared to the specification limits and the tolerance of the features measured on the cmm, you should be able to write yourself an 'extension' to the recall, based on DATA and the decision you made, based on that.

If your external auditor gives you grief, roll up the deviation, coat the end in Vaseline, and.........

Of course, make sure your extension form is a) mentioned in your procedures etc and b) is a controlled document.

Go for it!!
 

Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#9
Re: can I use the cmm after calibration expires?

Alright I see you point. I don't totally agree with, but I understand where this is coming from.

My question back is: Is there not a master diametrical sphere to check the accuracy of the CMM? And this diametrical sphere is calibrated to be accurate within millionths or even tenths.

That is why I suggested only identifying the stickers with Month/Year would help in the long run.
Coury,

Excellent point! :applause:

If the "sticker" says: Month/Year, you have a whole month to perform the necessary calibration. But what I have seen most is: month/day/year.

That's how organizations get "in trouble" during he audit.

Stijloor.
 

BradM

Staff member
Admin
#10
Re: can I use the cmm after calibration expires?

If an Auditor is choosing to be that picky, they need to re-evaluate their techniques. We are talking a couple of days, still within the same month of calibration due date.

I would challenge any Auditor that would write this up as an NC.
I've seen it too many times for it to even be funny. Not only does the auditor comment on it, the organization overreacts and paints them self in a corner.

If I were the auditor, I would look at other instances where devices exceed the stated calibration due date (systemic issue). If this is indeed the case, I would write an NC.

Now, having said that, if you allow deviations from an established requirement, even if it's only one device, where does one "draw the line?"

What do you think?

Stijloor.

Again, I agree with you here. That's why I would be interested to determine what the recall procedure states, what industry, any regulatory pressures, etc.

One of the things I enjoy here on the Cove are what I term two views on things. One is of the frequenters here who are quality professionals and know the Best Practice approach (Coury and Stijloor just in this thread). I learn a lot here.

The other is like our friend who posted the question. They are at the receiving end of many audits by many auditors; and from what I have seen, many of them (the auditors) need to spend some more time around the Cove. Many of the practices/ approaches of auditors here, while I may not necessarily agree with, are far more logical and useful in nature than a lot of the so-called audit findings out there. I see so many burdensome, borderline ridiculous systems which were initiated from audit observations that should have been challenged or discarded altogether.

Functionally and procedurally it is just fine to go a couple of weeks past a due date. But you should have it documented; where good auditors move on to something else, and a not-so-good auditor wastes valuable time arguing about something that does not matter.
 
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