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Can internal ISO 17025 Auditor conduct ISO 9001 Audit

P

pkwatt

#1
#1
Hi everyone,
Can an internal ISO 17025 auditor conduct internal ISO 9001 Audit?
Are all the sections of ISO 9001 covered in ISO 17025 so they can perform the audit? We have very few internal auditors and wanted to see if we can use the ISO 17025 team to audit 9001 as well.
Please advise
Thank you!
 
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D

dsanabria

Quite Involved in Discussions
#2
#2
pkwatt said:
Hi everyone,
Can an internal ISO 17025 auditor conduct internal ISO 9001 Audit?
Are all the sections of ISO 9001 covered in ISO 17025 so they can perform the audit? We have very few internal auditors and wanted to see if we can use the ISO 17025 team to audit 9001 as well.
Please advise
Thank you!
Click to expand...
Any individual can audit any internal process. There are no legal requirements for credentials.

Having said that... It is nice if the internal auditor has some experience or credentials to audit - but it is not required. So, yes - the internal ISO 17025 team can audit the ISO 9001 area.
 
A

AndyN

Moved On
#3
#3
dsanabria said:
Any individual can audit any internal process. There are no legal requirements for credentials.

Having said that... It is nice if the internal auditor has some experience or credentials to audit - but it is not required. So, yes - the internal ISO 17025 team can audit the ISO 9001 area.
Click to expand...
Better still - competency. An auditor must be competent. Not "credentialed". Competent - and NOT in the standards, either.
 
D

dsanabria

Quite Involved in Discussions
#4
#4
AndyN said:
Better still - competency. An auditor must be competent. Not "credentialed". Competent - and NOT in the standards, either.
Click to expand...
It is sad that there is only a handful of those "Competent" auditors and they are not distributed equally.

Maybe in the next revision they should add that and ....Competent auditors must have "Common Sense"
 
Jen Kirley

Jen Kirley

Quality and Auditing Expert
Staff member
Admin
#5
#5
Well I would hope the auditors to have common sense. But we auditors are notoriously hard to calibrate, so we should take care not to confuse lack of alignment with silliness.

17025's elements mirror 9001 requirements in most cases, so I don't see why a 17025 qualified auditor can't at least help out with 9001 audits. I would consider taking advantage of this person's strengths, so auditing calibration seems like an obvious choice but maybe Design should be dome by someone more familiar with Engineering.
 
Last edited:
P

pkwatt

#6
#6
Thank you for the responses.
I was thinking that a self study or classroom session of the Section 7 should satisfy that the ISO 17025 auditor can audit ISO 9001. They already have the understanding on how to audit, it is a matter of understanding section 7 and asking the appropriate questions and objective evidence. Would you agree? Are there any other sections that ISO 17025 does not cover? I could not find any.
Thanks again!
 
A

AndyN

Moved On
#7
#7
dsanabria said:
It is sad that there is only a handful of those "Competent" auditors and they are not distributed equally.

Maybe in the next revision they should add that and ....Competent auditors must have "Common Sense"
Click to expand...
Don't agree! There are many competent people, but - as we should have learned in life - it's not all about "common sense". Did you ever have an "aha" moment, AFTER someone explained something to you? You didn't know before? They explained it to you? What happened to your "common sense"?
 
D

dsanabria

Quite Involved in Discussions
#8
#8
AndyN said:
Don't agree! There are many competent people, but - as we should have learned in life - it's not all about "common sense". Did you ever have an "aha" moment, AFTER someone explained something to you? You didn't know before? They explained it to you? What happened to your "common sense"?
Click to expand...
Competent - having the necessary ability or skills : able to do something well or well enough to meet a standard -


So if you do not have the skills or necessary ability - you are not competent.

I know a bunch of auditors that I need to stop their process and thinks because lack of common sense prevented them to see beyond the "aha" moment - years later.... they are still in the same place.

This is the main reason customers do not want certain auditors in their facility.
 
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