Search the Elsmar Cove!
**Search ALL of Elsmar.com** with DuckDuckGo including content not in the forum - Search results with No ads.

Can Ionizer calibration last for 1 year?

#1
Recently we have visited one of the supplier and find out the ionizer does not labeled as calibrated in production line, when this doubt raised to them they are providing the evidence that shows the ionizer was sending out for external calibration on yearly basis.
This is a huge loading as they are hundreds of the fan in production line, but my question is really the calibration could last for 1 year?
How can we guarantee the needle of the emitting pin is functional after every cleaning, the ESD discharge from certain voltage could be dispassion in the required time?
I saw some procedure say that maintenance for the ionizer fan is 6 month and may vary base on the actual situation as they described in the TR20.20 but unfortunately I don't have the access to that ESD manual.

Is there anyone has such experience could clear the doubt for me? Thanks
The industry is automotive EMS, ESD failure or EOS is fatal to our product.
 
#2
The ANSI/ESD S20.20-2014 standard now refers you to ANSI/ESD STM3.1 for verification guidance for ionizers.
That document refers you to the ANSI/ESD SP3.3 standard practice document for Ionizers.
In SP3.3 it gives this guidance for the verification interval:

"The user then determines the time interval between verification of ionizer performance based
on how critical the ionizers are to the static control program. Each user will need to develop their
own set of test frequencies based on the critical nature of those ESD sensitive items handled
and the risk of failure for the ESD protective equipment and materials."

Way back in the original ESD 20.20 it recommended quarterly verification of ionizers... but that's not what they say now.
Like most other standards they are pushing organizations to determine the risk to their processes and products and to act accordingly.
 

Ninja

Looking for Reality
Trusted
#3
Note that, as a supplier, you can request and/or demand a shorter interval...with or without a reason.
Note that it may have impact on pricing if you do so...

Perhaps this is an item that you choose to roll into the next round of negotiations around contract extension?
 
#4
The ANSI/ESD S20.20-2014 standard now refers you to ANSI/ESD STM3.1 for verification guidance for ionizers.
That document refers you to the ANSI/ESD SP3.3 standard practice document for Ionizers.
In SP3.3 it gives this guidance for the verification interval:

"The user then determines the time interval between verification of ionizer performance based
on how critical the ionizers are to the static control program. Each user will need to develop their
own set of test frequencies based on the critical nature of those ESD sensitive items handled
and the risk of failure for the ESD protective equipment and materials."

Way back in the original ESD 20.20 it recommended quarterly verification of ionizers... but that's not what they say now.
Like most other standards they are pushing organizations to determine the risk to their processes and products and to act accordingly.

Thanks for the explaination, it’s quite strange that current industry does not specified that much for regular check, as I previously worked in the semiconductor that was a very intensive environment which require regularly ESD discharge test.

Back to the question itself, I am concerned that if they do on annual basis, how could we detect the failure during the year? Till the time comes that might already not functioned for a while, normally the ESD &EOS failure is not so obviously to be detected.

Next step I might approach them to get the definition how they come up with the annual check requirement.
 
Last edited:
#5
Note that, as a supplier, you can request and/or demand a shorter interval...with or without a reason.
Note that it may have impact on pricing if you do so...

Perhaps this is an item that you choose to roll into the next round of negotiations around contract extension?
Basically my intension is to bring quality to ideal level( zero defect) , the pricing topic is concerned but not that much in my scope.
 

Ninja

Looking for Reality
Trusted
#6
Fair enough...but any demands you put on a customer, or any other business, has direct cost consequences for them...you shouldn't ignore that.
You, personally, may not be in authority over that area...or even care about that area...but your actions have potential consequences in that area.
Quality is not in a self contained bubble.
 
#7
Fair enough...but any demands you put on a customer, or any other business, has direct cost consequences for them...you shouldn't ignore that.
You, personally, may not be in authority over that area...or even care about that area...but your actions have potential consequences in that area.
Quality is not in a self contained bubble.
Fully understood your point.

I am now working as a SQE and my job scope is push supplier on the way towards a good quality perspective, our supplier does respond quite well as we are the top 5 automotive company in the world, but now the difficulty is that predecessor already approved this process, however the quality target still in the air and we need to address that.

But I do understand that all the actions the supplier doing would incur the cost, but there is no way back as no invest then probably no good output, no good output then your customer would never satisfied.
 
D

Dogsbody

#8
I guess it depend on balance requirements. Your engineers should be able to determine the voltage threshold. If threshold is high than maybe ionizer is really only a secondary helper. If workbench and operators are ESD grounded and paper is eliminated from work area maybe the ionizer is not helping out too much. I worked for RugedCom before sale to Siemens and company used ionizers based on advice from external "ESD expert" and learned about 1 1/2 years later that ionizer did little if anything to reduce static voltage. ESD grounding protection was all that was necessary.
 
#9
I guess it depend on balance requirements. Your engineers should be able to determine the voltage threshold. If threshold is high than maybe ionizer is really only a secondary helper. If workbench and operators are ESD grounded and paper is eliminated from work area maybe the ionizer is not helping out too much. I worked for RugedCom before sale to Siemens and company used ionizers based on advice from external "ESD expert" and learned about 1 1/2 years later that ionizer did little if anything to reduce static voltage. ESD grounding protection was all that was necessary.
Thanks for the explaining.
What you mentioned is from ESD source, but as the system is there it’s hard to convince that actual this system is contributing a little to eliminate the ESD affect, but a charging dissipation test could really understand well how this system work and provide the guidance whether any cleaning or calibration is required.
I have visited several plant but seems they just install the ionizer fan and as long as there is the air blow, then it’s functional ;(
 


Top Bottom