Note: Per Jane's request, the relevant posts have been moved from the thread in which this discussion began.
A lively debate sprang up around this topic in another thread. I'm starting this separate thread not to derail the other one any further. (Perhaps we could cut the relevant posts out of that thread and post them here?)
To summarise, I think the topic under debate is:
If you have no customer involvement yet (eg, a new product or service), then none of the requirements of clause 7.2.1 in ISO 9001 apply.
BigJim holds this view strongly. His point is that 7.2.1 is not always a precursor to design, and trying to make it so goes beyond the scope of the standard. 7.3.2 covers the same ground or more, since it is not limited to customer input.
I and some others disagree, saying that you do not have to have any real live customer when you are creating a new service/product, and that you should consider the requirements of 7.2.1 as far as you can pre/while designing. The fact that the 'real' customer comes later is immaterial.
You can see the relevant posts in this thread Does ISO 9001 Clause 7.3 Design and Development apply?
What do you think?
And if I've summarised inadequately, please feel free to correct!
To summarise, I think the topic under debate is:
If you have no customer involvement yet (eg, a new product or service), then none of the requirements of clause 7.2.1 in ISO 9001 apply.
BigJim holds this view strongly. His point is that 7.2.1 is not always a precursor to design, and trying to make it so goes beyond the scope of the standard. 7.3.2 covers the same ground or more, since it is not limited to customer input.
I and some others disagree, saying that you do not have to have any real live customer when you are creating a new service/product, and that you should consider the requirements of 7.2.1 as far as you can pre/while designing. The fact that the 'real' customer comes later is immaterial.
You can see the relevant posts in this thread Does ISO 9001 Clause 7.3 Design and Development apply?
What do you think?
And if I've summarised inadequately, please feel free to correct!
This appears to be the beginning of the discussion:
Also make sure that you have the 7.2.1 stuff down as well..especially 7.2.1b
You can't do 7.3 until you do 7.2.1
You can't do 7.3 until you do 7.2.1
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Very obvious to anyone who's spent more than, ooh shall we say a day? around the Cove. 