Can not do design without a Customer?

In terms of ISO 9001 7.2.1.

  • It can go either way

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    11
  • Poll closed .

John Broomfield

Staff member
Super Moderator
#31
Can anyone helo me in understanding which product or service is realised without "customer" involvement ?

3.3.5
customer
organization​
(3.3.1) or person that receives a product (3.4.2)

EXAMPLE Consumer, client, end-user, retailer, beneficiary and purchaser.​
NOTE A customer can be internal or external to the organization.

SATHISH
Sathish,

The computer you used to make this post was designed and made without your involvement.

This applies to most if not all of the consumer products you own.

These are examples of products designed and made without Sathish being involved as the customer.

John
 
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Elsmar Forum Sponsor
M

MIREGMGR

#33
An organization that would engage in a costly New Product Development process "in the vacuum", devoided of any input from potential customers, users and consumers should be awarded the Darwin award, in the corporate category.
Many market needs are obvious based on documented needs and/or common sense. This is the "if we build it, they will come" marketing philosophy.

Other market needs are met in backdoor fashion when an inventor creates something that he or she uniquely realizes how to do, often purely because they enjoy creating things and overcoming technical challenges, and it turns out that he or she isn't the only person that wants the invention. This is the intuitive path.

Some examples:

1. A pharma company, as part of its broad mega$$$ search for biomedical action of complex natural organics, discovers a substance that achieves an improved level of effectiveness in treatment of a known disease...so it productizes it. There's no need to consult with potential users and disease sufferers, at the point of the initial productization decision, as to whether they're interested in a more effective treatment option than they currently have.

2. A teenager codes up a functionality that he would like to have exist, because it doesn't and he can. It turns out that a bunch of his buddies like it too. Then it turns out that 100 million other people want it as well. That's basically the story of DOS, Windows, Lotus 1-2-3, online "bulletin board" technology, Facebook, Twitter, Napster, etc.

3. The first personal computers were all hobby or hobby-business efforts that turned into businesses, and eventually a rather large industry. Often design was driven, not by what customers would want, but what parts the designers could afford to buy, or existed to be bought, or could finagle someone into co-developing for them.

4. Lockheed is one example of a rather large company that for decades maintained an expensive sub-operation (in their case, the so-called Skunk Works) tasked specifically with building things that they could figure out how to do, and would have neat new capabilities. No customers involved until they had something that flew and was "interesting".

None of these is the norm, of course--the pharma example is less common than it was in the '70s, say, because a lot of the world has been explored and because molecular synthesation has proceeded to the point that design now more frequently is marketing driven, i.e. model and test all the possible molecules that have these characteristics, similarities and interactions, and meet these criteria--but they've all been historically important.
 
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SteelMaiden

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
#34
IMHO, even if you don't have an actual customer when you begin to design something for sell, you are envisioning one and trying to foresee what all that customer would want to see in your product. So, no, you don't have to have a "contract" in hand when designing a product but to some extent you have already got a "customer" in mind and figured out what those requirements will be, through market research as stated earlier. To further clarify, don't confuse contract with customer.:2cents:
 

Randy

Super Moderator
#35
:lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao:

No customer!!!!!!!!!!!

:lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao:

There's always a customer...the one that pays cash for the stuff (EXTERNAL) or the one that uses the stuff without compensation (INTERNAL).....Lets not go down the development costs and all that, just keep it simple

INTERNAL customers and EXTERNAL customers, thay can all have requirements, expectations and needs and design needs can come from either one

Sooooooooooooo much single dimensinal thinking:frust::frust::frust:
 

Big Jim

Super Moderator
#36
Really? A requirement from what source? ISO 9001? ISO 9004? Better business practices? Business 101?

An organization that would engage in a costly New Product Development process "in the vacuum", devoided of any input from potential customers, users and consumers should be awarded the Darwin award, in the corporate category.

We should not forget either the ISO 9000 definition of the term requirement when applied in ISO 9001, including 7.2.1a):
And in this country they are free to seek the "darwin award", intentionally or unintentially.

The topic at hand is ISO 9001:2008. Show me the "shall" in that standard.

I don't debate that it may be a bad business practice even though it may not always be. That doesn't create a "shall" in ISO 9001:2008.
 
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Big Jim

Super Moderator
#37
:lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao:

No customer!!!!!!!!!!!

:lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao:

There's always a customer...the one that pays cash for the stuff (EXTERNAL) or the one that uses the stuff without compensation (INTERNAL).....Lets not go down the development costs and all that, just keep it simple

INTERNAL customers and EXTERNAL customers, thay can all have requirements, expectations and needs and design needs can come from either one

Sooooooooooooo much single dimensinal thinking:frust::frust::frust:
I don't agree. I do agree that it would be stupid business practice though.
 

BradM

Staff member
Admin
#40
A lively debate sprang up around this topic in another thread. I'm starting this separate thread not to derail the other one any further. (Perhaps we could cut the relevant posts out of that thread and post them here?)
Jane, thank you for starting the thread. I went ahead and added a poll. If you do not wish to have the poll, let me or another moderator know, and it can be closed. If the wording needs to be changed, also let anyone know.:)
 
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