Can one Management Representative operate between two sister firms

[samsung]

Re: Can one Management Representative operate two sister firms

I see no problem with one person, being employed by both/either company to be the Management Rep. What 'legal entities' and outsourcing have to do with it, I can't see at all. If the person is a full time employee, that fulfills the requirement and it's not outsourced. I think there's a little misunderstanding here...

But Andy, what I know is that one individual can't be employed by two companies simultaneously if both are separate legal entities. There are legal restrictions on employment atleast in our country. I'm not aware of the rules in other countries.

 

[AndyN]

Re: Can one Management Representative operate two sister firms

But Andy, what I know is that one individual can't be employed by two companies simultaneously if both are separate legal entities. There are legal restrictions on employment atleast in our country. I'm not aware of the rules in other countries.

Really? In India, a person can't work two jobs? My son would never survive (here in the USA) if he didn't work two jobs!

 

[samsung]

Re: Can one Management Representative operate two sister firms

Really? In India, a person can't work two jobs? My son would never survive (here in the USA) if he didn't work two jobs!

Yes, it's like that unless one holds the position of a director in a company, else the regular employees aren't allowed to work elsewhere. One is obliged to produce the 'relieving certificate' from the previous employer at the time of recruitment.

Thanks.

 

[AndyN]

Re: Can one Management Representative operate two sister firms

Yes, it's like that unless one holds the position of a director in a company, else the regular employees aren't allowed to work elsewhere. One is obliged to produce the 'relieving certificate' from the previous employer at the time of recruitment.

Thanks.

OK, so in India, the MR must be a director - which is the most appropriate level to hold the role of MR, isn't it?

 

[samsung]

Re: Can one Management Representative operate two sister firms

OK, so in India, the MR must be a director - which is the most appropriate level to hold the role of MR, isn't it?

I wish if it had been the reality. Indeed it's the most appropriate level for the position of MR but the unfortunate part is that the directors (mostly) here have no time even to know what their MR (normally a full time employee of GM/VP rank) is actually doing.

 

[JaneB]

Re: Can one Management Representative operate two sister firms

Sorry for the mistake i had made. MR was previously able to be outsourced according to ISO 9001: 2000 (http://www.tc176.org/pdf/rfi027_final.pdf) but not the latest version of ISO 9001:2008.

The Clause 5.5.2 of ISO 9001:2008 is now clearly stated that MR shall be a member of the organization's management which means outsource is not allowed anymore.

Opinions differ about whether outsourcing is 'not allowed any more'. I read it differently, and disagree with your view that the MR must be an 'employee' of the organisation.

The arrangement that an organisation has with its MR is up to it, as for that matter are its arrangements with anyone who does work for them/supplies services, whether that be as casual, part- or full-time employees, as contractors, consultants, suppliers etc. What does it matter? It matters that the organisation defines what it wants and makes sure it gets it. WHo cares how?

If an organisation chooses to have a consultant (for example) be their MR, they can. The organisation can simply appoint that person as a member of their management . There is no definitive ruling contradicting that (from TC176, I mean, ignoring the opinions of a commercial business such as the one you mention.)

PS, You cannot quote someone like Praxiom as a supposed 'authority' on interpretations of ISO 9001. They aren't. It's just their opinion. As this is mine.

 

[ong0708]

Re: Can one Management Representative operate two sister firms

Opinions differ about whether outsourcing is 'not allowed any more'. I read it differently, and disagree with your view that the MR must be an 'employee' of the organisation.

The arrangement that an organisation has with its MR is up to it, as for that matter are its arrangements with anyone who does work for them/supplies services, whether that be as casual, part- or full-time employees, as contractors, consultants, suppliers etc. What does it matter? It matters that the organisation defines what it wants and makes sure it gets it. WHo cares how?

If an organisation chooses to have a consultant (for example) be their MR, they can. The organisation can simply appoint that person as a member of their management . There is no definitive ruling contradicting that (from TC176, I mean, ignoring the opinions of a commercial business such as the one you mention.)

PS, You cannot quote someone like Praxiom as a supposed 'authority' on interpretations of ISO 9001. They aren't. It's just their opinion. As this is mine.

Hi Jane,

Another similar opinion given out by BSI group stated that MR should not be an outsourced position in ISO 9001:2008. Attached for your easy reference.

But I am thinking of deployment can actually work as the deployed person can be considered as "a member of the organization's management". It is much depends on how your company define the management.

I would like to welcome more opinions on this to clarify my doubts as well. If someone can share the statement given out by ISO TC regarding this would be even better.

 

[PE-2011]

Re: Can one Management Representative operate two sister firms

Samsung is correct.

But I dont think "MR must be a director". But it is correct that "Director is the most appropriate level to hold the role of MR".

As per my knowledge MR can be a Quality Manager also. Samsung I am correct or not?

 

[samsung]

Re: Can one Management Representative operate two sister firms

Samsung is correct.

But I dont think "MR must be a director". But it is correct that "Director is the most appropriate level to hold the role of MR".

As per my knowledge MR can be a Quality Manager also. Samsung I am correct or not?

Ofcourse, a Quality Manager can also be an MR provided s/he's a member of the organization's management with some executive authority.

ISO 9000:2005 has defined the term 'management' as:

3.2.6
management
coordinated activities to direct and control an organization (3.3.1)

NOTE In English, the term “management” sometimes refers to people, i.e. a person or group of people with authority and responsibility for the conduct and control of an organization. When “management” is used in this sense, it should always be used with some form of qualifier to avoid confusion with the concept “management” defined above. For example, “management shall…” is deprecated whereas “top management (3.2.7) shall…” is acceptable.

 

[samsung]

Re: Can one Management Representative operate two sister firms

Opinions differ about whether outsourcing is 'not allowed any more'. I read it differently, and disagree with your view that the MR must be an 'employee' of the organisation.

The arrangement that an organisation has with its MR is up to it, as for that matter are its arrangements with anyone who does work for them/supplies services, whether that be as casual, part- or full-time employees, as contractors, consultants, suppliers etc. What does it matter? It matters that the organisation defines what it wants and makes sure it gets it. WHo cares how?

If an organisation chooses to have a consultant (for example) be their MR, they can. The organisation can simply appoint that person as a member of their management . There is no definitive ruling contradicting that (from TC176, I mean, ignoring the opinions of a commercial business such as the one you mention.)

PS, You cannot quote someone like Praxiom as a supposed 'authority' on interpretations of ISO 9001. They aren't. It's just their opinion. As this is mine.

I'm sorry Jane to differ on the issue of an MR being a consultant. Please refer the attached document (approved interpretation) taken from the ISO website public domain. that also prohibits an organization from deputing a consultant as an MR though it says "person independent of organization's management (e.g. a consultant)" cannot be an MR but at the same time it's very difficult to establish that a consultant is a member of the organization's management.