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Can one Management Representative operate between two sister firms

P

PE-2011

#51
#51
It is a fact that [term "consultant" not mentioned anywhere in ISO 9001].

It is also a fact that, "standard not saying that organization can appoint a Consultant as MR".

I feel Samsung is correct because "Consultant" cannot be a "member of the organization's management".

However it is true, many appointing Consultant as MR. I think the consideration here just like, company hiring workers on contractual basis (not a permanent employee of the company). Same way if MD do not have any problem by giving contract (appoint letter) to the Consultant, the Consultant will work for the organization. BUT HERE STILL SAMSUNG IS CORRECT BECAUSE CONSULTANT IS JUST CONSULTANT ONLY, CANNOT BE LIKE PERMANENT EMPLOYEE OF THE ORGANIZATION. It works as I mentioned "hiring workers".

Maheswari
 
Standard Work Instruction Software by Dozuki
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P

PE-2011

#52
#52
Re: Can one Management Representative operate two sister firms

Dear Samsung,

Standard saying clause no.5.5.2 "a member of the..." "not saying members of the...." - that is why I presume MR can be one member (one MR). If more than one MR in one organization, that may for different certifications - i mean one for QMS, one for EMS etc.

But I am not sure whether my assumption is correct or not.


I request other members for further clarification in this.
 
somashekar

somashekar

Staff member
Super Moderator
#53
#53
Re: Can one Management Representative operate two sister firms

maheswari said:
Dear Samsung,

Standard saying clause no.5.5.2 "a member of the..." "not saying members of the...." - that is why I presume MR can be one member (one MR). If more than one MR in one organization, that may for different certifications - i mean one for QMS, one for EMS etc.

But I am not sure whether my assumption is correct or not.


I request other members for further clarification in this.
Click to expand...
MR is one for a system and can be the same person for other systems, even to other systems of sister firms.
Certain organizations further have Assistant MR, Deputy MR, etc., nominated for their internal conveniences. However it is The MR who has the responsibility to liaison with external parties on matters relating to the management system.
 
V

vanputten

#55
#55
Samsung:

I don't get it. I related both interpretations, word by word, to 5.5.2 of ISO 9001:2008 and to your position. I went word by word making specific comments as to whether the term meets "the standard" or "your position."

Also, I wonder if you do not understand the interpretation process. The Interpretations committees within TC176 receives a question that must be written in a format so it can be answered with either a "yes" or a "no." The only text written and provided by TC76 are the words "yes" or "no." The interpretation questions are NOT written by the committee.

My references are exactly the same as yours except for two things. I reference the interpretations, ISO 9001, (1) my personal experience on the US Interpretations Committee since 2003 where we reviewed these exact interpretations, and (2) my participation on the US TAG to ISO/TC 176 since 1998. I was involved in the review and revision of ISO 9001:2000 and ISO 9001:2008. I started working with QS 9000 in 1993. I hope I learned something in 18 years of general standards work and 13 years in the ISO process. I also had a provisional RAB certification to perform 3rd party auditing.

If you think an independent Director meets 5.5.2, great! Do it however you want. The term " consultant" only appears in the interpretation question written by someone outside of ISO. No official text or interpretation from ISO includes that term.
 
Sidney Vianna

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Staff member
Admin
#56
#56
Re: Can one Management Representative operate two sister firms

ong0708 said:
Another similar opinion given out by BSI group stated that MR should not be an outsourced position in ISO 9001:2008. Attached for your easy reference.
Click to expand...
Around 10 years ago, when ISO 9001:2000 was rolling out, BSi (The Certification Body) had a policy that organizations certified by them had to have SEPARATE procedures for corrective and preventive actions. Over time, they were forced to change that policy because it was a requirement not supported by the ISO 9001 standard itself. Actually, ISO 9001:2008 has a clarification note to that effect.

So, just because someone in a "quasi-authoritative" position states something, it does not necessarily mean it is THE ONLY and CORRECT interpretation.
 
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