Can registrar auditors write up something an organization has already identified?

[Slickpick]

Hello,

Our IATF re-certification audit is coming up soon, and we have some gaps. Quite a few actually...

Some background: The management team here has not been consistent, and several hands have been involved in the QMS / documentation (prior General Manager always had to do things "their way" and would not listen to process owners) during that time. To give an idea of the turnover in the last 10 years, this organization has seen:

• 8 General Managers (our latest GM came in about a month ago)
• 5 Quality Managers (I stepped into this role 2 years ago, my predecessor lasted about two months)
• 4 Maintenance Managers (our latest maintenance manager started at the beginning of this year)
• 3 HR Managers (current HR Manager has been here for 1 year)

Our management team is relatively new at this point. The majority of our floor personnel however (operators, QC inspectors, maintenance techs) have been here several years and are able to walk and talk through their processes quite well. The gaps mainly pertain to documentation.

On a positive note, we do have a strong internal audit program in place. With that being said, we are documenting our findings and have plans in place to correct the issues. However, based on the amount of findings and work required, we will not have everything corrected / implemented by time our recertification audit takes place. We also have a management review scheduled with our new General Manager and will be discussing / documenting these gaps and weaknesses along with our action plans prior to the audit...

Can the registrar auditor write an NC on something that we have already identified internally as an issue?

 

[Ashland78]

That will certainly help. There is a clause that talks to closing NC within a defined time frame, but you determine that in your process. Ours is 15 working days after they had 5 working days to come up with the root cause and plan. #iworkforgm

 

[Sidney Vianna]

Can the registrar auditor write an NC on something that we have already identified internally as an issue?

This has been discussed here a few times in the past. The real question is: if the issue (nonconformity) is valid, what is the problem with the CB auditor documenting it? Aren’t you already working on a corrective action? So, what is the problem?

 

[Golfman25]

This has been discussed here a few times in the past. The real question is: if the issue (nonconformity) is valid, what is the problem with the CB auditor documenting it? Aren’t you already working on a corrective action? So, what is the problem?

It’s 1000 times easier to actually fix the issue internally than go thru the nit picking of the auditor.

 

[Golfman25]

Hello,

Our IATF re-certification audit is coming up soon, and we have some gaps. Quite a few actually...

Some background: The management team here has not been consistent, and several hands have been involved in the QMS / documentation (prior General Manager always had to do things "their way" and would not listen to process owners) during that time. To give an idea of the turnover in the last 10 years, this organization has seen:

• 8 General Managers (our latest GM came in about a month ago)
• 5 Quality Managers (I stepped into this role 2 years ago, my predecessor lasted about two months)
• 4 Maintenance Managers (our latest maintenance manager started at the beginning of this year)
• 3 HR Managers (current HR Manager has been here for 1 year)

Our management team is relatively new at this point. The majority of our floor personnel however (operators, QC inspectors, maintenance techs) have been here several years and are able to walk and talk through their processes quite well. The gaps mainly pertain to documentation.

On a positive note, we do have a strong internal audit program in place. With that being said, we are documenting our findings and have plans in place to correct the issues. However, based on the amount of findings and work required, we will not have everything corrected / implemented by time our recertification audit takes place. We also have a management review scheduled with our new General Manager and will be discussing / documenting these gaps and weaknesses along with our action plans prior to the audit...

Can the registrar auditor write an NC on something that we have already identified internally as an issue?

So my guess is most of your findings are with your internal procedures and not necessarily applicable to the standard. It would thus be of zero value for the auditor to duplicate your efforts. I would think they would look to the standard and see if any findings were relevant to the standard. Good luck.

 

[Sidney Vianna]

It’s 1000 times easier to actually fix the issue internally than go thru the nit picking of the auditor.

Why? A corrective action is a corrective action is a corrective action. It shouldn’t be any different. And, just to remind you and others, if all of your CB auditors are nit picky and you can’t reason with the CB technical manager, your CB selection process is really faulty. Who is to blame?

 

[Golfman25]

Why? A corrective action is a corrective action is a corrective action. It shouldn’t be any different. And, just to remind you and others, if all of your CB auditors are nit picky and you can’t reason with the CB technical manager, your CB selection process is really faulty. Who is to blame?

Are you on the consumer side of IATF? Doesn’t sound like it because it pretty much sucks. The pickings of good CBs and auditors is slim. The requirements for corrective actions are on steroids. There is nothing simple with those people.

 

[ChrisM]

"Can the registrar auditor write an NC on something that we have already identified internally as an issue?"
A nonconformance is a nonconformance, full stop. If you have found one and your external auditor finds it before you have put it right, of course he can raise it even though you are already addressing it.... he/she may mention this as part of the text of their NC Report but ultimately if it hasn't been fixed before the auditor finds it, then it should be reported

 

[RoxaneB]

Hello,

Our IATF re-certification audit is coming up soon, and we have some gaps. Quite a few actually...

Some background: The management team here has not been consistent, and several hands have been involved in the QMS / documentation (prior General Manager always had to do things "their way" and would not listen to process owners) during that time. To give an idea of the turnover in the last 10 years, this organization has seen:

• 8 General Managers (our latest GM came in about a month ago)
• 5 Quality Managers (I stepped into this role 2 years ago, my predecessor lasted about two months)
• 4 Maintenance Managers (our latest maintenance manager started at the beginning of this year)
• 3 HR Managers (current HR Manager has been here for 1 year)

Our management team is relatively new at this point. The majority of our floor personnel however (operators, QC inspectors, maintenance techs) have been here several years and are able to walk and talk through their processes quite well. The gaps mainly pertain to documentation.

On a positive note, we do have a strong internal audit program in place. With that being said, we are documenting our findings and have plans in place to correct the issues. However, based on the amount of findings and work required, we will not have everything corrected / implemented by time our recertification audit takes place. We also have a management review scheduled with our new General Manager and will be discussing / documenting these gaps and weaknesses along with our action plans prior to the audit...

Can the registrar auditor write an NC on something that we have already identified internally as an issue?

Can they? ... Yes.
Will they? ... Maybe.
Does their NC put the spotlight on the real issue? ... Meh.

At the end of the day, duplicating your NC is not the real issue. You speak of turnover at the Manager level, yet go on to say that due to the "amount of findings and work required," not everything will be completed/closed by the time the recert audit rolls around. Are you implying that the work was to be done by those Mangers where there is heavy turnover? If so, the issue is not so much that items are still open, but perhaps regarding how resourcing was provided/addressed to keep the management system moving forward despite having new people or vacant positions.

If a QMS "stops" because someone isn't there, that's cause for concern.

 

[Randy]

It's normally a poor A%% auditor that does that. I'd invite them to leave and as a Lead I've tossed an NC like that a couple times when a team member pulled that crap.