Can the Plant Manager be our ISO Representative and an Internal Auditor?

D

dbulak

#1
#1
One of our internal auditors became the Plant Manager and ISO Representative. He now is in charge of all the production processes. Can he still he be an internal auditor?
Thanks in advance.
 
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L

lk2012

#3
#3
hi,
there's no problem for the Plant Manager to be also the 'representative for Quality' and do internal audits. In fact, I think it's a benefit having someone with auditing (and therefore systems) experience at such high level position. The only thing to make sure is that he doesn't audit his own process.
Lil
 
A

AndyN

Moved On
#4
#4
Golfman25 said:
As long as he doesn't audit production he should be ok.

So for example, he could probably audit purchasing.
Click to expand...
Noooooooooooo!

He can't audit his "own work"! I'd WANT him to audit "production"... Let's please keep with the correct requirements, not "interpretation".
 
A

AndyN

Moved On
#5
#5
dbulak said:
One of our internal auditors became the Plant Manager and ISO Representative. He now is in charge of all the production processes. Can he still he be an internal auditor?
Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...
Sure, if he's competent (as an auditor, that is). You might want to be careful about "bias", as in he sees what actually happens but can't see it's NOT the way HE wants it to happen - that's a common failing when management audit. They can't accept the practice isn't the way they believed things were done. Oh, and as long as he doesn't audit his "own work", you should be fine.
 
L

lk2012

#6
#6
I'm afraid I'd disagree with you on this one Andy. :argue:
The manager should definitely 'audit' his area, especially if he's just been added to the team.
What I mean by 'not auditing his own work' is making sure the internal auditor in the area is impartial and can take all the evidence with a fresh pair of eyes. Internal audit-wise, I'd prefer this new manager audits Purchasing, for example ;)
 
A

AndyN

Moved On
#7
#7
lk2012 said:
I'm afraid I'd disagree with you on this one Andy. :argue:
The manager should definitely 'audit' his area, especially if he's just been added to the team.
What I mean by 'not auditing his own work' is making sure the internal auditor in the area is impartial and can take all the evidence with a fresh pair of eyes. Internal audit-wise, I'd prefer this new manager audits Purchasing, for example ;)
Click to expand...

Being "impartial" is a competency trait, not a title! Auditing another process does'nt make them any more "impartial" - in fact, if you have the wrong person doing the audit (especially new), they might actually beat up Purchasing for the supplier problems! A "fresh pair of eyes" is also a competency trait. Don't confuse being "new" and being objective and impartial, either. I think you are confusing the issues.
 
G

Golfman25

Trusted Information Resource
#8
#8
AndyN said:
Noooooooooooo!

He can't audit his "own work"! I'd WANT him to audit "production"... Let's please keep with the correct requirements, not "interpretation".
Click to expand...

Wouldn't you suppose that production is the Production Manager's own work? He is ultimately accountable for it. Seems to me this would raise a red flag to a CB auditor that you would spend time trying to justify. Semantically you could be right, but practically I'm not so sure.
 
A

AndyN

Moved On
#9
#9
Golfman25 said:
Wouldn't you suppose that production is the Production Manager's own work? He is ultimately accountable for it. Seems to me this would raise a red flag to a CB auditor that you would spend time trying to justify. Semantically you could be right, but practically I'm not so sure.
Click to expand...
Nope and who gives a flying fig for what a CB auditor *thinks*. Production is a responsibility, so unless he's out there on the line making stuff (and even then he can audit another operation), it doesn't count - seriously. It's not semantics, it's "practical" and in there for small businesses to be able to comply.

Any CB auditor who made a deal of that should be shown the door...
 
H

Helmut Jilling

Auditor / Consultant
#10
#10
AndyN said:
Noooooooooooo!

He can't audit his "own work"! I'd WANT him to audit "production"... Let's please keep with the correct requirements, not "interpretation".
Click to expand...
The production manager can be an auditor, and can be the mgt rep...and can be plant manager too.... BUT, I would probably flag if the production manager "audited" Production, and would say he is not independent...least wise in a small plant.

To be clear, the Production Mgr should be "auditing" and managing his own dept. and process everyday! But the internal audit should be done by someone who is independent of that process.
 
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