Can they take our tools? Inspection vs. Manufacturing Tooling and Gages

F

FaithQC

#1
I run the inspection department in a small/medum size mfg company in the Oilfield Industry. We are ISO 9001:2008 Certified and are currently updating our entire Quality Manual. I have been given the opportunity to establish some standards that have not been enforced in the past; namely, separation of Inspection tools from Shop tools.

I strongly believe that all Inspection equipment should be used only by the Inspection Department and should not be taken into the Mfg. Shop except by an Inspector for a specific use and then immediately returned. Our culture, however, is such that machinists routinely borrow Inspection tools to run close tolerance jobs or (as in the case of Gage Pins) simply because they don’t want to dig around and look for the tool.

Here’s my question…is there a Spec or Standard that specifically states that there should be a separation between Inspection and Manufacturing as it pertains to tooling and gages? Any input would be appreciated.
 
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Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#2
I run the inspection department in a small/medum size mfg company in the Oilfield Industry. We are ISO 9001:2008 Certified and are currently updating our entire Quality Manual. I have been given the opportunity to establish some standards that have not been enforced in the past; namely, separation of Inspection tools from Shop tools.

I strongly believe that all Inspection equipment should be used only by the Inspection Department and should not be taken into the Mfg. Shop except by an Inspector for a specific use and then immediately returned. Our culture, however, is such that machinists routinely borrow Inspection tools to run close tolerance jobs or (as in the case of Gage Pins) simply because they don’t want to dig around and look for the tool.

Here’s my question…is there a Spec or Standard that specifically states that there should be a separation between Inspection and Manufacturing as it pertains to tooling and gages? Any input would be appreciated.
No standard. In fact the idea of such a segregation is very 1950s. Where do the manufacturing people have to "dig around" to get what they need, and why?
 
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Wes Bucey

Quite Involved in Discussions
#3
I run the inspection department in a small/medum size mfg company in the Oilfield Industry. We are ISO 9001:2008 Certified and are currently updating our entire Quality Manual. I have been given the opportunity to establish some standards that have not been enforced in the past; namely, separation of Inspection tools from Shop tools.

I strongly believe that all Inspection equipment should be used only by the Inspection Department and should not be taken into the Mfg. Shop except by an Inspector for a specific use and then immediately returned. Our culture, however, is such that machinists routinely borrow Inspection tools to run close tolerance jobs or (as in the case of Gage Pins) simply because they don’t want to dig around and look for the tool.

Here’s my question…is there a Spec or Standard that specifically states that there should be a separation between Inspection and Manufacturing as it pertains to tooling and gages? Any input would be appreciated.
No standard. In fact the idea of such a segregation is very 1950s. Where do the manufacturing people have to "dig around" to get what they need, why?
Jim's comment echoes my thinking. Back in 12th April 2005, I wrote (http://elsmar.com/Forums/showpost.php?p=105469&postcount=18]) Pertinent stuff in bold red
As I promised earlier and got sidetracked:
When I ran a high tech contract machining shop, we made a corporate decision and gutted our entire building, sold off all the machines, and designed from scratch what we wanted.

Facilities:
We put power lines in the floor where we planned to place machine "cells" and in trays in the ceiling where we could drop down new wires in the future as occasion might demand. We put in all new, low power, high lumen lighting and air conditioning. New concrete floor was laid to hold ANY load, finished with a practically impervious epoxy finish.

We had pertinent inspection equipment at every cell. Specialized equipment like CMM and optical comparators were kept in a soundproofed, climate controlled lab along with our special scales and weight and dimension standards for calibrating instruments. Every operator was trained in using all equipment (if we could trust him with a half-million dollar machine tool, we could sure trust him with a $20,000 CMM)

We built a soundproof office and conference area with phones, computers, copiers, printers, plotters, tv, vcr, DVD, PowerPoint projector, private desk for each machine operator.

Vending machine area and break room had "kitchenette" facilities. Bathrooms for each gender were like country club locker rooms (private toilets, showers, dressing rooms, lockers, etc.)

New computer-controlled machines were brought in, arranged in "cells" run by one operator. Operator could program at machine or at his desk.

Operation:
Operators were all on MRB (material review board) in addition to Quality Manager, Finance/Purchasing, Marketing. MRB meetings were held in their [the operators'] conference rooms. If customers or suppliers were invited to MRB, they met there, too.

All training (in-house, machine tool suppliers, outside experts, cutting tool suppliers, heat treaters, platers, etc.) could be conducted on-site. Customers were encouraged to come and meet with operators running their jobs.

We had no quality inspectors (we did have quality trainers and guys who acted as "court of last resort" when a question would arise.) Operators did own first article inspections, based on control plan/inspection plan agreed with customer as part of contract review. Another operator would perform a redundant first article inspection with different inspection instruments. Marked sample with BOTH inspection reports was sent to customer for confirmation before production began.

In-process inspection, SPC, etc. was performed by operator in real time. If nonconformance was discovered, production would halt - all operators would collaborate on finding and curing cause, only calling in outside help if solution eluded them. Inspection records, charts, etc. went right to computer where they were available in real time to in-house folk and customers.


Operators had autonomy to bring in experts from our suppliers of material, capital equipment, and expendable tooling to stay up to date on industry innovation. Sometimes, we shut the whole shop down and chartered a bus to take us to the International Machine Tool Show to spend the day.

If an operator wanted to see a customer's operation and how his product was used, we made it happen. Similarly for a supplier's operation.

Bottom line:
We treated our operators as true partners. We made sure our suppliers and customers understood the power and authority we gave them. In ten years, they never disappointed us. I hope we never disappointed them.
 
#4
Hello, and welcome to the Cove, Faith. :bigwave:
I strongly believe that all Inspection equipment should be used only by the Inspection Department and should not be taken into the Mfg. Shop except by an Inspector for a specific use and then immediately returned.
As the norm today leans very heavily in favour of letting the operators perform the inspection I wonder if there is any particular reason when you say that you feel so strongly about this? Have a look at another current discussion about who is responsible for in-process inspection.

Our culture, however, is such that machinists routinely borrow Inspection tools to run close tolerance jobs or (as in the case of Gage Pins) simply because they don’t want to dig around and look for the tool.
I suppose they need those tools to be able to do their jobs properly then, but what about the digging around? Do they in fact have their own equipment, and if so, why the need to dig around?

Here’s my question…is there a Spec or Standard that specifically states that there should be a separation between Inspection and Manufacturing as it pertains to tooling and gages?
None that I am aware of. As for the question in the thread title (Can they take our tools?) I suppose they can, unless you have or create an internal rule saying otherwise, but I am not so sure that this would be such a grand idea: It could create a lot of unnecessary resentment and be very counterproductive.

I am as curious as Jim and Wes, here: Can you tell us more?

/Claes
 
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J
#5
Snip -

Originally Posted by FaithQC
Our culture, however, is such that machinists routinely borrow Inspection tools to run close tolerance jobs or (as in the case of Gage Pins) simply because they don’t want to dig around and look for the tool.
I suppose they need those tools to be able to do their jobs properly then, but what about the digging around? Do they in fact have their own equipment, and if so, why the need to dig around?

Snip -

I am as curious as Jim and Wes, here: Can you tell us more?

/Claes
This part seems to point to a serious problem with control of measuring instruments in the production areas.
My guess is that there are some tools, like gage pins, supplied to the production area and that operators are good at taking these pins but not so good at returning them to their appropriate box/location. This results in the next operator having to hunt around to find out who had it last/ where did it get left etc.

Faith QC, Is this right?

Peace
James
 
D

David DeLong

#6
I certainly agree with the previous comments about integration of measuring equipment rather than separation.

Yes, we once separated tools and the Inspection got the better ones while the Operators had beat up measuring equipment but that was a time when manufacturing and Quality were heated enemies. Today, we work together and the same measuring equipment should be used by all trained employees.

I believe that you are going in the wrong direction.
 

SteelMaiden

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
#7
What benefit is it to your company to have a system where production operators do not have measuring devices capable of assessing product conformity? i.e. operating using a quality cops system seems that you would produce more defective product while waiting for an inspector to make the go/no go call.

I can also see where an inspector wouldn't want people rummaging around taking measuring equipment, so why not provide production their own equipment that is accurate?
 

Jen Kirley

Quality and Auditing Expert
Staff member
Admin
#8
Lots of good comments so far.

I also agree that operators should be able to have their own tools, but if they are to be used for sensitive setups and/or inspections of any type, they should be controlled.

Control doesn't mean they all need to be kept and maintained by QA/Inspection, but it means there should be a means to identify them, locate them, assure their condition and accuracy and in general maintain readiness for adequate and appropriate use.

If operators have to rummage around for their tools, I wonder if a 5S isn't a good idea - to arrange and promote sensible, accessible and safe tool storage in whatever means works best.
 

hogheavenfarm

Quite Involved in Discussions
#10
I think I understand where you are coming from though. Our operators borrow our measuring equipment and rarely return it. or return it stepped on, bent, dropped, rezeroed, or whatever. We like to keep a set of 'good' measuring equipment in the lab for us to use. They have the necessary tools, just dont care for them, and as a result they are usually lost or broken.
 
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