Can You Reject an Auditor?

[Ron Rompen]

Always remember, the auditor works for YOU, not the other way around. If you don't like the auditor (for some valid reason) then by all means let your CB/registrar know, and request that they send you someone else for your next audit. I have dealt with good and bad auditors over the years, and have never had a problem saying that I didn't want someone back.

 

[Sidney Vianna]

Always remember, the auditor works for YOU,

I know what you mean, but there is a reason they are referred to as THIRD PARTY AUDITORS. The concept is that they are not supposed to compromise their assessments to satisfy the (paying) registrant. Yes, the CB is working under a contractual relationship with the registrant, but, in principle, they should be working as representatives of the registrants customers.

Way too often, this aspect is ignored and the auditors forget why they are there, to start with.

 

[Randy]

the auditor works for YOU,

Nope.. The auditor is working for whoever is paying them, in my case I don't "work" for the CB that I represent, I work for my legal employer (my wife under her corporate structure in this case) who is contracted to supply a specific person (me) to provide specifically defined auditing services under the CB's policies, procedures and those of the AB & MLA organizations as applicable. I'm obligated by my personal code, my CB's ethical standards, and my personal professional certifications to be as honest, ethical, objective and independent as possible in providing those services. I'm also bound to look out for my employers, my CB's and the auditees best interests concurrently.

I believe (hope in fact) that some of the folks here in the Cove I've run into from the other side of the table can attest to the above. It's what I taught I don't know how many auditing and other professionals and it's what I attempt to practice.

If you don't think your auditor can meet those simple parameters remember, the door swings open both ways.

 

[Scanton]

I had a nightmare auditor during my IATF 16949 re-certification audit last year. He interpreted parts of the standard incorrectly, made stuff up and wouldn't look at evidence that showed our compliance to certain clauses, and then raised a nonconformity. I should have known what was coming as he informed me (during the audit) of previous audits that year where people had complained about him and even one where he got barred from a site by the MD. Needless to say I complained to the CB who explained I had to stay with the same auditor for the 3 year cycle, to which I tactfully explained that that would be difficult for him to do from the curb side, as he would not be allowed on our site again.

We have another auditor now, fingers crossed that this one is like all of the others I have crossed paths with over the last 25 years (good people) and not like the last one.

 

[GunLake]

He would say, "let's get your boss in here and see what he thinks" and then ignore me and talk to the boss. My boss kissed his ass but he didn't need to.

As well as requesting that he does not return, I would personally have a talk with your boss as well. My boss would be on my side and argue right back. Unless there is clear evidence I was wrong.

 

[Randy]

I had a nightmare auditor during my IATF 16949 re-certification audit last year. He interpreted parts of the standard incorrectly, made stuff up and wouldn't look at evidence that showed our compliance to certain clauses, and then raised a nonconformity. I should have known what was coming as he informed me (during the audit) of previous audits that year where people had complained about him and even one where he got barred from a site by the MD. Needless to say I complained to the CB who explained I had to stay with the same auditor for the 3 year cycle, to which I tactfully explained that that would be difficult for him to do from the curb side, as he would not be allowed on our site again.

We have another auditor now, fingers crossed that this one is like all of the others I have crossed paths with over the last 25 years (good people) and not like the last one.

Good job and you were fibbed to, you didn't have to keep the auditor 3 years, he's not allowed to audit more than 3 years under existing rules.

 

[Quality Specialist]

Good job and you were fibbed to, you didn't have to keep the auditor 3 years, he's not allowed to audit more than 3 years under existing rules.

Hi Randy,
I was just following up on this thread as we have an certified body auditor (AS9100D) from last year that was a real jackhat. I wasn't working for this company at the time but I've sure heard about it from everyone. He's not responsive in communications and treated everyone like dirt and was very condescending. I am the only quality department employee (Quality Specialist) for a company of 10 employees. So with what you said in this post, I would like clarification of what you meant. When you say that an auditor is not allowed to audit more than 3 years, do you mean audit the same company for more than three years?
Our controller/HR person does not want to rock the boat in trying to get a different auditor as she fears that we won't be able to and will suffer some repercussions from this guy if he comes back.
I want to change CB's completely (currently with IAPMO R&T) so as not to ever get this guy back. I have no idea how to go about it. We don't have a exact date for our 2nd surveillance audit but last year it was on May 25th so maybe we have time to change. This company had their initial certification for AS9100D in 2020. First surveillance last year and the second one coming in May.
I'm open to any advice from those who have experience, in coaching me to how we can change CB's without wrecking havoc with what the company is locked into already for the last two years (the auditor from IAPMO that did their initial cert. was fine).
Any questions for clarification are welcome!

 

[AuditFan]

I want to change CB's completely (currently with IAPMO R&T) so as not to ever get this guy back. I have no idea how to go about it.

As long as your QMS is in good standing, that is no open non-conformities, you can change your CB at any time (the exception being IATF 16949). If you are unhappy with an auditor, and unless you are also unhappy with the service you get from the office, there's no real need to change CB. Simply tell the Operations management you want another auditor and tell them why. To be honest, I hear the same issues with some other AS 9100D auditors from bigger, more well known CBs than the one you're with. One auditor hadn't even started the opening meeting at the stage 1 and screamed (yes, screamed) at the owner about an ITAR violation! Be sure to vet whomever they suggest they want to send, first. Interview them over the phone. Ask questions about which clients they serve and ask for referrals.

ISO 19011 defines the characteristics of effective auditors. These unacceptable behaviors should NOT be tolerated and the CB should hear about it. Often, they don't know, so the auditor "goes rogue" on all their other clients. It's not an isolated thing. The bar has dropped instead of being raised. I've heard of auditors who use passive/aggressive behaviors. I've know of auditors who have consulted about corrective actions after writing majors.

 

[Randy]

One auditor hadn't even started the opening meeting at the stage 1 and screamed (yes, screamed) at the owner about an ITAR violation!

Yep, had one say "Gotcha" while "digging" for something "wrong" because he just "felt" it. I was the Lead and that stopped real, real fast!

 

[Quality Specialist]

So, if anyone knows, I'd still like to know if an external auditor can only audit the same business for three years max in a row. This would be happy news if those in charge here at my company refuse to make any changes to the terror auditor they had last year (only two more years of he**).
Randy said, "you didn't have to keep the auditor 3 years, he's not allowed to audit more than 3 years under existing rules." Anyone?