SBS - The best value in QMS software

CAR (Corrective Action Report) with questionable Root Cause

Cari Spears

Super Moderator
Staff member
Super Moderator
#11
Although, to be fair there are situations where we send a sample but it doesn't match the BOM as it's the first time we're building a product or we just don't have an exact sample on hand...
We are often provided with samples or CAD models from our customers that are "go by". They are clearly identified as such, and somewhere in their statement of work or the purchase order there is a statement indicating that the drawing/CAD/BOM or whatever is the engineering definition.
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor

Tagin

Trusted Information Resource
#12
Our CM built a lot of products incorrectly, that is what was built didn't match the Bill Of Materials (BOM) provided. This was the second time in a relatively short time period so we requested a CAR from them. They indicated the root cause was, we provided a sample(our CM has requested we always send a sample) that didn't match the BOM, and the operator built the product to match the sample. The corrective action was to retrain the operator to always build to the BOM. We checked our records and they show the sample provided did match the BOM. Although, to be fair there are situations where we send a sample but it doesn't match the BOM as it's the first time we're building a product or we just don't have an exact sample on hand...

I plan to have a visit with our CM to discuss, but I'm a bit unsure the best tact to take build a stronger relationship without making them defensive. We've been trying to do a better job at capturing issues, and providing feedback. Historically we only captured major issues(a couple a year) and rarely provided feedback to our CM when we had issues, we'd just fix the issues.

Unfortunately it seems like this is making our CM defensive. They are key to our business and I want to create an open line of discussion where we're helping one another improve and not one of poking each other in the eye, which I think they perceive this to be. Suggestions, on how to discuss the questionable root cause they provided?
1) Can the sample vs. BOM discrepancy be confirmed? As you state, your org sometimes does not provide a sample that matches the BOM, although in this case it should have. Is it possible for they and you to simply examine the sample to verify that it does or does not match the BOM?

2) In either case, it seems that one area of potential issue was that for the CM there were two "sources of truth": a) the BOM and b) the sample. Their corrective action was essentially to make the BOM the "single source of truth", which seems a good thing.

3) I'd still have a question about their verification (Q/C) methods to ensure the correct result, but that may be an area you feel is ok, as you didn't mention it.

4) The approach I'd take to relations is: you consider them a valuable partner and this is precisely why you want to invest time and energy into making the processes and interactions stronger and smoother; not because you want to chew them out. (That is, if they weren't a valuable partner, you wouldn't even spend this time - you'd find an alternate supplier instead.) I'd also spend a good part of that discussion asking them what your org can do to make life better for them. (How many times have we wrung our hands at customers who provide requirements piecemeal, or poorly documented, or have multiple voices saying different things to you as a supplier, leaving you confused and making mistakes? It seems reasonable we should ask if we are doing these kinds of things to our own suppliers.) That kind of "two-way street" to improvement hopefully will ease their minds.
 

Big Jim

Super Moderator
#13
Our CM built a lot of products incorrectly, that is what was built didn't match the Bill Of Materials (BOM) provided. This was the second time in a relatively short time period so we requested a CAR from them. They indicated the root cause was, we provided a sample(our CM has requested we always send a sample) that didn't match the BOM, and the operator built the product to match the sample. The corrective action was to retrain the operator to always build to the BOM. We checked our records and they show the sample provided did match the BOM. Although, to be fair there are situations where we send a sample but it doesn't match the BOM as it's the first time we're building a product or we just don't have an exact sample on hand...

I plan to have a visit with our CM to discuss, but I'm a bit unsure the best tact to take build a stronger relationship without making them defensive. We've been trying to do a better job at capturing issues, and providing feedback. Historically we only captured major issues(a couple a year) and rarely provided feedback to our CM when we had issues, we'd just fix the issues.

Unfortunately it seems like this is making our CM defensive. They are key to our business and I want to create an open line of discussion where we're helping one another improve and not one of poking each other in the eye, which I think they perceive this to be. Suggestions, on how to discuss the questionable root cause they provided?
It seems a bit unusual for a CM to require a physical model. You may or may not have the ability to create one. They should be able to provide a sample based on your drawing and / or CAD model. If they can't perhaps part of your supplier development should be to help them do so.
 

tony s

Information Seeker
Trusted Information Resource
#15
Since both your organization and the CM had hands in creating the problem, why not analyze the cause/s and determine the appropriate actions with them. Sometimes it pays when the CM work with you - not always for you. This will also improve your organization's relationship with your CM.
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
E CAR (Corrective Action Request) Due Dates ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 17
J When to Initiate a CAR (Corrective Action Request) ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 6
5 Expediting Internal Corrective Action Requests (CAR) Closures Nonconformance and Corrective Action 3
Mikishots How to handle CAR (Corrective Action Request) Scope vs. Timely Response Nonconformance and Corrective Action 9
M Audit Interview as Evidence to issue a CAR (Corrective Action Request) General Auditing Discussions 13
H Acceptable Time to provide proof of CAR (Corrective Action Report) Nonconformance and Corrective Action 4
N Combining Multiple CARs (Corrective Action Request) into One CAR? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 16
M Operator Mistakes (Errors) and responding to CAR (Corrective Action Requests) Nonconformance and Corrective Action 20
B Issue CAR (Corrective Action Request) When KPI Fails to meet Goal Quality Manager and Management Related Issues 8
B CAR (Corrective Action Request) from Management Review Meeting ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 3
T CAR (Corrective Action Request) for On Time Delivery Nonconformance and Corrective Action 7
C AS9100 Rev C Clause 8.5.2 - CAR (Corrective Action Request) Format AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 14
S Supplier Corrective Action Request (SCAR) vs. Corrective Action Request (CAR) Food Safety - ISO 22000, HACCP (21 CFR 120) 15
D NC (Nonconformance) on an Auditors CAR (Corrective Action Request)? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 8
S Corrective Action Audit Form to close a CAR Document Control Systems, Procedures, Forms and Templates 6
M Corrective Action Report (CAR) for CB (Certification Body) required? Registrars and Notified Bodies 8
S CAR to Assessor - Is it allowed to issue a corrective action to an assessor? General Auditing Discussions 28
F Can we reply to a CAR (Corrective Action Request) without Root Cause? Problem Solving, Root Cause Fault and Failure Analysis 24
V CAR (Corrective Action Request) vs. PAR (Preventive Action Request) ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 12
I How do you classify/name your CAR (Corrective Action) types? Nonconformance and Corrective Action 6
P Question in auditing regarding CAR (Corrective Action) Logs Internal Auditing 7
Crusader Registrar CAR (Corrective Action Request) Trend Analysis Benchmarking 6
C CAR (corrective action request) report form for automotive application Nonconformance and Corrective Action 5
5 CAR (Corrective Action Report) for low-buck import Nonconformance and Corrective Action 7
D What is the scope of a CAR (Corrective Action Request)? Nonconformance and Corrective Action 15
M Preventive Action in Corrective Action Report (CAR) Nonconformance and Corrective Action 14
J How to write a CAR (Corrective Action Report) for a Customer Nonconformance and Corrective Action 24
M Issue CAR (corrective action request) TO our Customer? Nonconformance and Corrective Action 20
A CAR (Corrective Action Request) form sans Cause analysis? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 8
T To CAR or not to CAR (Corrective Action Request) - Sales changing prices ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 17
R Are Supplier CAR's (Corrective Action Requests) a Requirement Supplier Quality Assurance and other Supplier Issues 12
A How to Write CAR (Corrective Action Request) based on scenario Nonconformance and Corrective Action 3
M Supplier completed CAR (Corrective Action Request) is unacceptable Nonconformance and Corrective Action 16
J Log in EVERY SINGLE defect caught and demand Corrective Action for each CAR? Preventive Action and Continuous Improvement 11
B CAR/PAR (Corrective Action / Preventive Action) process flow - Seeking example Nonconformance and Corrective Action 7
C Definition CAR - Corrective Action Request - What is the Definition of Definitions, Acronyms, Abbreviations and Interpretations Listed Alphabetically 2
R Car (Corrective Action Request) Responsibility - Manufacturer Per Avl Or Supplier Supplier Quality Assurance and other Supplier Issues 3
D No response to CAR's - Supplier refuses to answer a corrective action Supplier Quality Assurance and other Supplier Issues 12
I Hardcopy or electronic CAR (Corrective Action Request) form (& others)? Document Control Systems, Procedures, Forms and Templates 18
A Customer's Web Based CAR (Corrective Action Request) Systems ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 13
S Corrective Action Request (CAR) to Customer - Has anyone done this? Nonconformance and Corrective Action 10
D Operator Error - Not an Acceptable CAR (Corrective Action Request) Response Nonconformance and Corrective Action 26
M Corrective Action Report (CAR) & Non-conformance Report (IQA) - Computer vs. Paper Document Control Systems, Procedures, Forms and Templates 2
G Corrective Action Request (CAR) Form Examples and Discussion Document Control Systems, Procedures, Forms and Templates 238
B CAR (Corrective Action Request) Format Document Control Systems, Procedures, Forms and Templates 1
B CAR/PAR (Corrective Action / Preventive Action) Systems - How to Centralize? Nonconformance and Corrective Action 17
M Risk and Corrective actions - Currently no FMEA's - Car systems Risk Management Principles and Generic Guidelines 8
A Supplier Corrective Actions - EFFECTIVE corrective actions on CAR's Supplier Quality Assurance and other Supplier Issues 7
G CAR & 5Whys Problem Solving, Root Cause Fault and Failure Analysis 17
Marc Mule Car aka Body Mule Definitions, Acronyms, Abbreviations and Interpretations Listed Alphabetically 6

Similar threads

Top Bottom