CAR from 3rd party AS9100D auditor - Root cause dilemma

Golfman25

Trusted Information Resource
Doesn't your QMS mitigate this? I'd have thought that a well designed, properly implemented QMS would have reduced "frequently" to "occasionally"...

It's not us. It's usually our customers. Whenever we do a design review, we'll ask their engineering "how you going to measure that?" They'll frequently say "That's QA's problem." Then QA will want engineering to give them an overly detailed drawing of what they want measured. So we end up with some weird stuff. We have one where the tolerance for the part and the CPK calculations are different. :)
 

AndyN

Moved On
It's not us. It's usually our customers. Whenever we do a design review, we'll ask their engineering "how you going to measure that?" They'll frequently say "That's QA's problem." Then QA will want engineering to give them an overly detailed drawing of what they want measured. So we end up with some weird stuff. We have one where the tolerance for the part and the CPK calculations are different. :)

Don't you review the customer requirements for such things BEFORE you quote?
 

Golfman25

Trusted Information Resource
Don't you review the customer requirements for such things BEFORE you quote?


That's funny right there. :)

Yes. We told them that what they wanted couldn't be done. They went elsewhere. Then came back. That was their "work around."

At some point, you need to take the job and bring the part in with a pencil.
 

AndyN

Moved On
That's funny right there. :)

Yes. We told them that what they wanted couldn't be done. They went elsewhere. Then came back. That was their "work around."

At some point, you need to take the job and bring the part in with a pencil.

I'm unfamiliar with that expression. You took on work which you can't be certain will satisfy the customer, because it can't be inspected the way it's drawn? Work others rejected, presumably for the same reasons?

I thought the ISO 9001 standard requires an organization to ensure capability BEFORE acceptance of the contract. In my experience of dealing with a) poor design specs and b) ill-equipped suppliers, I ended up rejecting stuff which was 1) impossible to make as drawn and b) suppliers never had the wherewithal to point that out. Needless to say, those suppliers didn't last long...
 

Golfman25

Trusted Information Resource
I'm unfamiliar with that expression. You took on work which you can't be certain will satisfy the customer, because it can't be inspected the way it's drawn? Work others rejected, presumably for the same reasons?

I thought the ISO 9001 standard requires an organization to ensure capability BEFORE acceptance of the contract. In my experience of dealing with a) poor design specs and b) ill-equipped suppliers, I ended up rejecting stuff which was 1) impossible to make as drawn and b) suppliers never had the wherewithal to point that out. Needless to say, those suppliers didn't last long...

At the risk of heading way off topic, what does that even mean? We do metal stamping. Show me a stamping and I can find you an out of spec. dimension because stamping isn't perfect. Take something as simple at edge shear/break. You'll get two different measurements depending on where you pick it up. Or better yet, an outside bend radius -- it's a fiction in forming because the center moves as the material stretches. We point out the problems all the time.
 
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