CB Certify OHSAS 18001:2007 without AB - Why CB no need AB?

B

berseak

My company certify OHSAS18001:2007. My CB without AB. Question is why CB no need AB. Buz when I certify ISO9001:2008 CB have a AB eg. UKAS, ANAB.

What is benefit of AB (have or on have) in the real world.

Thank you
 
K

keres

Re: CB Certify OHSAS 18001:2007 without AB

It's all about trust. When CB is accredited demonstrate its management system is audited and approved by AB. The accreditation (such as certification) is voluntary and its benefit is trust. In other case everyone would be issue certificates.
 
P

pldey42

Re: CB Certify OHSAS 18001:2007 without AB

This is a failure on your part to ensure that you are purchasing a product which is fit for your use.

Please also see What you as an auditee should know about your CB

That's a little harsh. How do we know that berseak took the decision to hire the CB?

The AB audits the CB to assure that the appropriate audit procedures are followed. This includes not just procedural conformity, but checking that the CB sends competent auditors, that complaints are handled correctly, and so forth. They check that the CB does not get itself into a conflict of interest by consulting, and even assure that the CB has enough cash in the bank and is therefore unlikely to feel obliged to hand out certificates in order to earn money. The idea is to assure that certificates of conformity issued by CBs are valid. Mileage varies, because some ABs are better than others. Some countries perceive their AB (and no I won't list them for fear of libel) as corrupt. The AB charges the CB a fee for the accreditation.

General perception is that accredited CBs are more trustworthy than unaccredited ones, provided the AB is itself one of respect. One simple way to decide is to ask significant customers whom they respect.

Unaccredited CBs are often associated with a consultancy service and have an built-in conflict of interest. They're sometimes plain incompetent, wilfully misleading or plain lunatic. For example I found one recently that had signed off on a quality policy which said, in part, "The quality policy is to establish a quality policy."

Using an unaccredited CB tells your knowledgeable clients that you want the appearance of conformity without the work and expense of actually doing it.

Hope this helps,
Pat
 

Howard Atkins

Forum Administrator
Leader
Admin
berseak- did anyone define the requirement for an accredited certificate?

Part of the requirements of the standard are :

4.4.6 Operational control
For those operations and activities, the organization shall implement
and maintain:

b) controls related to purchased goods, equipment and services;

The controls here were not effective if an Accredited Certificate was required and here we see a non conformance to the standard.



To often I have seen that purchasing do not understand what they are buying and the real requirements are not defined by the purchaser and the decision is based on price.
See Registrars - Low price - good deal.pdf
 
P

pldey42

He's asking what it means, not for a reprimand for not having asked before.
 

AndyN

Moved On
In addition to Pat's excellent description - and maybe something for Howard's informative thread on CBs - is the fact that accreditation has significant 'costs'. Those CB organizations who establish and maintain an accreditation program for their certification services, are not 'fly-by-night organizations, simply because they must have the funding available. Each different standard requires a separate accreditation and the costs are not inconsiderable.

Those organizations who choose to 'dodge the bullet' and avoid gaining internationally recognized accreditation of its services, are pouring their revenues directly to profit, since they have no accreditation program burden. To be blunt, they make money from those who are ignorant of the situation!

And, to Pat's point, where does anyone who is new to certification, find this kind of information? What would YOU put into a Google search, if you had no clue?
 
V

vanputten

Does this issue being discussed have anything to do with the fact that OHSAS is a British Standard? Who would be the Accreditation Body to Certification Bodies for OHSAS 18001?
 

Colin

Quite Involved in Discussions
I don't think it has much to do with it being a BS. There are plenty CB's in the UK who are accredited for 18001 certification by UKAS.

As for the OP, I know of a few companies that have 9001 and/or 14001 with a CB and they want to add 18001 but their existing CB does not have accreditation for OHS, however they may be going through the process at this time. So rather than wait, they get their system in place and certificated by the same CB, even though that part in unaccredited at this time.

The idea being that they have a fairly simple task when their CB gets its accreditation.
 

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Leader
Admin
Does this issue being discussed have anything to do with the fact that OHSAS is a British Standard? Who would be the Accreditation Body to Certification Bodies for OHSAS 18001?
Indeed, for a number of years, many AB's refused to have an accreditation program for OHSAS 18001. In the last few years, most IAF signatory AB's have instituted programs for OHSMS accreditation. ANAB had a program that included OHSAS 18001, CSA Z1000 and the ANSI Z10 OHSMS documents.

AS9100, AS9003, TL-9000, R2, RIOS, etc. are a few example of accreditation programs supported for non ISO standards.
 
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