Certificates of Compliance

[Colin Reilly]

Good Afternoon-

We are currently in the process of upgrading our QMS to meet AS9100D requirements. We are a raw material distributor who specializes in stainless steel and aluminum.

We require all vendors who supply us with raw material (both mill and other distributors) to provide original mill test reports with all shipments and those are provided to all of our customers with our shipments per our terms and conditions/flow down requirements. We currently do no provide Certificates of Compliance with shipments with the exception of customers with a preexisting requirement. Are we required to provide C of Cs as part of the standard?

We periodic review test reports against material specifications to verify material meets requirements, we perform quarterly checks of inventory items using our XRF and verify the chemistry against the test report and material spec(s), and we send product out annually for third party lab analysis as product verification.

Are these activities enough or do we need to send C of C's?

 

[Big Jim]

It doesn't matter if the standard requires a C of C (it doesn't) or not. A customer requirement trumps all. The standard does require you to meet all customer requirements, including if they want a C of C.

 

[ChrisM]

The standard does require you to meet all customer requirements, including if they want a C of C.

..... but only if you agree to the customer requirements.
As a metal distributor, you are reliant upon the documentation provided to you by your supplier. Carrying out your own tests to establish chemical composition of the materials you hold in stock would be expensive and probably mean that you would no longer be competitive on prices against your competitors. I firmly believe that there is an element of "customer education" built in to decent BMS/QMS, so that you query customer demands that appear to be unreasonable. If you have a Mill Cert with a batch of incoming metal, is it reasonable, and what value does it add for your customers, if you carry out your own testing on this certified material?

 

[Big Jim]

..... but only if you agree to the customer requirements.
As a metal distributor, you are reliant upon the documentation provided to you by your supplier. Carrying out your own tests to establish chemical composition of the materials you hold in stock would be expensive and probably mean that you would no longer be competitive on prices against your competitors. I firmly believe that there is an element of "customer education" built in to decent BMS/QMS, so that you query customer demands that appear to be unreasonable. If you have a Mill Cert with a batch of incoming metal, is it reasonable, and what value does it add for your customers, if you carry out your own testing on this certified material?

?

How could you proceed if you don't agree to the customer requirements?

I agree that if you find requirements that are difficult or not possible to achieve you and the customer should discuss alternatives to find a mutually agreeable solution.

 

[ChrisM]

?
How could you proceed if you don't agree to the customer requirements?

Without wishing to post too long a reply or get off topic, in the UK you can end up with protracted negotiations or disputes as customer may place an order on their T&C's, supplier accepts it but with a rider of "accepted on our T&C's", customer then refuses those T&C's etc etc. As with many such situations, the only winners are the lawyers who charge significant sums of money for doing IMHO very little

 

[ARAK100]

Hi Colin, it would be easier for you to provide a CofC, it's straightforward to create a template get yourself 9163 for guidance. I find it rare these days for it not to be a customer requirement, and on occasion I've seen them missed on purchase orders. Some customers view it as a declaration you are managing the product IAW your approvals. Not saying I agree or disagree with that, but that's how it is.

 

[Kronos147]

We periodic review test reports against material specifications to verify material meets requirements, we perform quarterly checks of inventory items using our XRF and verify the chemistry against the test report and material spec(s), and we send product out annually for third party lab analysis as product verification.

You probably do more right now than many of your peers/competitors. Look at their C of C. They often say that they confirmed what the mill says and are certifying you are providing the material received from the cert in conformance with the customer PO.

Cheers