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Certification Body Changeover - Transfer of Certificate

SKS04

Registered
#1
Hi,
I have certain questions regarding certification body changeover.
There were non-conformities in the surveillance audit and next is recertification audit. The corrective actions were submitted and were accepted by CB. The contract (3 years) has finished as it will be recertification audit next. The reason of change-over of CB is that estimate of auditing, this time is high.
The questions are:
a) "Is it worth to change the certification body, especially, if there were non-conformities from previous audit and corrective actions will be verified"?
b) Will the change of CB, result-in stage 1 and stage 2 audit or re-assessment only?
 
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Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Staff member
Admin
#2
Welcome to the Cove.

What standard(s)? Is the certificate properly accredited? Why the "sudden" increase in auditor-days? Has the CB explain the reason?

The CERTIFICATE TRANSFER process is "controlled" by an IAF Mandatory Document; see below.

Screenshot 2021-04-02 163539.jpg
 

SKS04

Registered
#3
Hi Sidney,
Thanks for providing the document.
Is the certificate properly accredited? Pls. explain. The CB is attached to accredited body and is referenced on the certificate issued. It is a renowned CB.
Why the "sudden" increase in auditor-days? It is not the increase in auditor days but if compared to last year (surveillance audit) or compared to initial certification, the estimate and few other costs are increased.
Has the CB explain the reason? Yes. That the cost is because the cost incurred by the issuing body has to maintain their accreditation.
Additional questions: a) What is certification review? b) Does it include review of minor non-conformities-corrective actions from previous CB which were accepted but to be verified? c) Does it include review of minor non-conformities-corrective actions from previous CB which were accepted and verified (in the past)?
 

Randy

Super Moderator
#4
OK, I've done about a dozen certificate transfers in the last year or so and some clients held multiple certificates, so I'm not guessing here.

The non-conformances will be subject for review during the Transfer audit, they don't necessarily have to be closed but they are reviewed and it would be much better if they could be closed.

If the next audit is scheduled to be a Recertification then the new CB will do a recertification, if its a surveillance then its's going to be a surveillance.

As for the "high time" for your durations, here's the deal (and I just discussed this in another Thread with someone). All "Accredited Certification Bodies" such as the one I've been with and just as the one Sidney above has been associated with are required to follow the exact same requirements for determining audit duration, where they will vary is in justifying increases or decreases in audit duration... Some apparently don't decrease but they will increase....Why?..... Depends on the justification"s used but the bottom line is "$". A decrease in duration is a decrease in revenue generated, whereas not changing duration or increasing duration can stabilize or bring in additional cashflow. The document used by CB's, like the one above, is published by the International Accreditation Forum or "IAF" as we call it and it's MD-5 and I pack it everywhere I go and share it with all my audit clients. I also have the one Sidney showed along with half a dozen others that I have to continuously refer to in my audit work. Here is the link to all IAF documents. (Free pdf downloadable) and you'll find IAF MD-5:2019 in the list.

IAF Publications: Mandatory Documents
 

Randy

Super Moderator
#5
Hi Sidney,
Thanks for providing the document.
Is the certificate properly accredited? Pls. explain. The CB is attached to accredited body and is referenced on the certificate issued. It is a renowned CB.
Why the "sudden" increase in auditor-days? It is not the increase in auditor days but if compared to last year (surveillance audit) or compared to initial certification, the estimate and few other costs are increased.
Has the CB explain the reason? Yes. That the cost is because the cost incurred by the issuing body has to maintain their accreditation.
Additional questions: a) What is certification review? b) Does it include review of minor non-conformities-corrective actions from previous CB which were accepted but to be verified? c) Does it include review of minor non-conformities-corrective actions from previous CB which were accepted and verified (in the past)?
OK a recertification audit is factored different than a surveillance audit. A Recert is 2/3rds the time of an initial certification and an annual surveillance is factored at 1/3rd of an initial certification.......... Example - if an initial certification is 12 days, a Recert is 8 days and a surveillance is 4 days (that's not counting justified increases or decreases in duration)...... Simple math and everyone plays by the same rules
 

Randy

Super Moderator
#7
Hi Randy,
Thanks for providing the information and the link to all IAF documents.
You bet and good luck. They may do then transfer on or offsite, normal for me is off because it's mainly a paper drill. Either way is allowed.
 

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Staff member
Admin
#8
That the cost is because the cost incurred by the issuing body has to maintain their accreditation.
As per the IAF Mandatory Document that I provided earlier, one of the questions you should be answering to the incoming CB is: WHY the transfer? Your reasoning seems to be COSTS. So, you are doing what is normally known in the industry as CB shopping. While costs of certification is something that needs to be considered, be aware that this very forum is full of examples of poor CB auditing faux pas; some in part, can be traced back to incompetent auditors, those who tend to work for less money. So, many times, the cheapest is not always the right choice.

But, you have not answered my first question; what standard(s)? The document above applies to most standards, but not all. IATF 16949, for example, has it's own certificate transfer requirements, above and beyond the IAF process.
 
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